It would be sad if ADV does disappear, but I lose nothing from this. I just go on my merry way and download anime, something I have been doing for almost the past 10 years. Sure the little kids will suffer, but then they'll discover the internet and download anime anyway, just like how I did it. The Circle of Life continues...

Yeah because you totally deserve to get all your entertainment for free and who cares of people lose their jobs, amirite?

So i'm suppose to stop companies from falling under?

I didn't know as a consumer that was my responsibility.

I'm sorry they lost their jobs,but many other companies fall under and no one gives a rat's ass when they do.

Just because it's an anime distribution company doesn't give it any more value than the multitude of companies that rise and fall at the drop of a hat.

I feel sorry for the employees, but seriously when has it been the average persons responsibility to make sure everyone is employeed.

Anyone remember the multitude programmers and other employees who lost jobs when a bunch of startup dotcom companies started going under. Sure it was horrible, but you can't keep a company from falling under when its not profitable, just because you feel sorry that people will lose their jobs.

That's how life works Zero-chan.

The problem is that the whole attitude of "well DVD companies don't need to exist because I can DOWNLOAD EVERYTHING (and everyone else should too wink wink) but man it sure sucks for the people who work there" is unfathomably retarded and does nothing but contribute to the problems this industry is facing, both in the West and in Japan. Companies in the west die off from low DVD sales, and it goes back to the source - companies in Japan wind up scared to take risks on new and interesting concepts for fear of low sales (since licensing a series to the west is also taken into consideration when anime is in planning).

I'm not going to rail against fansubs or anything - they serve a good purpose when used ethically - but I can't stress enough the utmost importance of supporting the anime, creators, and publishers you love with your money.

Look I don't deserve anything and i'm not saying that I want everything to be free.

The issue that I have here has to do with how people seem so full of themselves. Especially american fans. They seem that without American anime fandom, anime wouldn't exist. Somehow the years of anime broadcasting in Japan during the 70s 80s and 90s had nothing to do with growth or recession (depending on your point of view) of anime consumption in japan. They think that it all has to do with America, and that if America doesn't open up their eyes and embrace anime, that Anime is DOOMED!

I'm sorry, but if America stops caring about anime the Japanese will do what they've always done and have been doing, which evolving and developing new forms of entertainment to feed Japanese consumer.

Also, I'd like to point out that there are only a few occasions when certain anime series are created with the american consumer in mind. Overall most anime is created and distributed with the intent of selling it to the Japanese consumer. Genon tried to go through the whole american/japanese fusion consumer model and they failed miserably by doing so.

Are people who download stuff really in the anime DVD buying market? That's like saying PC game pirates are really in the PC gamebuying market. Look at the Stardock business model for PC games- they do quite well for themselves, though it wouldn't work for the anime DVD market. To the downloader as opposed to the DVD buyer- the anime companies shutting down would be a good thing- as they'd get the series quicker, with little appreciable loss in quality, and cheaper. Anime fandom survived before without commercial companies, it would survive again. (I know, this is Cynical- I should be sabakied for it ^_^)

Generally, if pirates don't have the good avaliable for free, they go without- they don't start paying for it. If they felt it was worth the money, they generally would pay for it. I think what this is saying is that people think the stuff that's being released isn't worth what they're charging.

Here's a question- would lower quality, lower cost anime be more profitable?

I think the issue is anime companies will make more profit off schwag and manga then they will DVD's these days. Way too many series are licensed as is.

What do I think the effects will be of this in the end

-Most US anime companies will shut down, leaving only 2-3
-Japan will change its business model, quality of anime produced will go downhill. There will be less big budget stuff
-Manga will be unaffected, and may even rise in popularity
-Anime convention attendance will continue to rise, unless the recession causes a serious drop in discretionary income.
-Companies will produce more schwag.
-Life will go on

"Sure it was horrible, but you can't keep a company from falling under when its not profitable, just because you feel sorry that people will lose their jobs."

It's not bringing any profit because people aren't buying the product. You speak as if that's THEIR fault. Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? This entire "WHO CARES, I'll just download it anyway, it doesn't affect me!" is a pretty silly mindset. And the fact that it's the most common one disturbs me.

What would your solution be? If not many people at all are going to buy the product, eventually no one's even going to release it. It's like expecting a restaurant to give you food for free.

Personally, I want to see this industry continue.

The anime industry in Japan won't be affected by us americans, the issue japan has with anime dvd sales is more homegrown than anything else. For some reason people think that American companies are bolstering Japanese studios and finanically backing them to make big budget series, this is completely false. Sure there are American investments/partnerships with japanese anime studios (a rare occasion), but the goal is to sell a product to japanese consumer.

I love how people equate "I'M NOT BUYING ANIME DVD'S = I WANT ANIME FOR FREE". Where the hell do you people get this. People buy anime because they dont' want it. The problem here is that US anime Distros overextended themselves releasing a large number of series in varying quality. Sure its great that we have variety, but it doesn't make any business sense. All they did was flood the market with low quality series and then bitch and moan about how people are downloading anime more than buying. Completely forgeting that they themselves took a risk by trying to stimulate growth by flooding the market.

I"m sorry hotlumberjack, but this isn't about expecting a restaurant to give you free food. What it really is like, is the restaurant blaming those who don't go to their restaurant because they don't like the food or never heard of it, for their financial woes.

Just because you make a product doesn't mean you're entitled to make a profit out of it. The trick here is to figure out who your core market and work on it to make a profit. After that you use those profits to expand beyond the core market. This is where it gets hairy. There is risks involved. The money you invest into expansion maybe lost because it seems you expanded too much and produced beyond what is demanded by the both the core and mas market. This is what happen to the US anime Distros. The took a business risk in expanding their production and found out there isn't that many people interested in paying for the product.

OK, let me give it to you straight. I work for one of the major US anime companies, you can take your guess who this is. Bottom line is simple, piracy of any kind hurts companies period! If you choose to support ILLEGAL downloads this is certainly your choice. I have been in the US anime business for over 10 years and hope we can continue to bring quality content to the US consumers. We are working hard to bring added value to our DVD's and also doing our best to bring product to the market at the lowest possible price...

Fact: It is becoming increasingly difficult to make $ in the US market and this will certainly result in fewer titles (franchises) being released on DVD in the US.

Unfortunately the so called anime fans who choose to download are forcing us to change our business model in order to turn a profit. We now make money by catering to the mass market unfortunately...

Wise up!

One could argue that's a good thing for all involved.

It is not the consumers fault that anime companies have tried selling crap, and it didn't take. Consumers are not stupid, they're not going to lap up everything with a spoon just because it's anime. 1995 was 13 years ago. Your own screenname is part of the problem- it shows a contempt for the customer- which is a lot of reason you guys are in financial trouble to begin with.

If you guys had protected your stuff years ago, there likely wouldn't have been this problem- but just as likely, the industry wouldn't be around in its current form, but a much smaller form.
Also, everyone knows you don't really have the resources to protect your IP, otherwise groups like Dattebayo would have been shut down already.

In the end, I think what you suggested is what's going to end up happening- it has to for you guys to stay in business. Cater to the mass market, and let the hardcores find the hidden gems, like how it was in the mid-90's.

Again, you just don't understand the business side of things. We have no choice but to take B & C titles in order to get A titles.
You are correct that the consumer has a choice. If you don't feel like the consumable format is a good value then don't purchase it, however please try and reward the anime companies that are doing their best to bring value to DVD. Support the companies that are trying to be creative and are trying to support the fans! Buso is a classic example if this...Releasing in box set form and scraping singles in order to try and give the fans the best value...

Now, on to my second point. One either lives their life with intergrity or without integrity. Bottom line, downloading content illegally hurts the entire process. Also, what message does this send to our children? It's OK to steal?

Please don't take offense to "fanboy"...We love our true fans!

(I'm taking the piracy equation out of things, as simply put, pirates aren't going to buy commerical no matter what- if piracy for your stuff didn't exist, the pirates would just get into something else, not buy your stuff. Integrity and morality won't change the facts of the matter- and is just a strawman argument in the end anyways. I still believe Animesuki is your best market research.)

That said, I understand the bind you guys are in some- which is why I'm skeptical about the number of commercial anime companies being more then 2 or 3 in a few years, or you guys becoming the arm of one branch and Japan doing it themselves. I didn't know the B and C's were tied to the A's (not surprised though), but if your industry got together and played hardball on that- I think you guys would win out in the end. Putting public pressure on the Japanese companies might help if they're doing something shady.
Being in a recession with possible stagflation doesn't help you guys out either.

Worst case scenario, the Japanese companies refuse- they lose money (and they're not in good shape either, and I don't think selling you the rights actually costs them anything, so they would be willing to take a lesser deal if that's all they could get) and you guys go out of business, which was going to happen anyways.

Fact is, I can't see a scenario where there isn't a massive consolidation in the US anime industry- you guys may be too split up to get a good deal. The other problem you guys face is the fact that consumers don't care too much about the quality of the presentation, but the quality of the show- and that's something the fansubbed content does just as well, and a LOT quicker, then you guys. The only suggestion I'd have in this area is to insist on simultaneous release of those embedded B and C titles, with scripts done before the anime is released, but I can see the Japanese companies balking at that. (You'd also have the advantage of beating the fansubbers before people realized the shows aren't that good, you'd be able to get something out of it that way)

Unsure how realistic some of these things are, I'm just brainstorming off the top of my head some business ideas. Probably already been thought of, but quite honestly- you guys need some solutions fast.