Bang Zoom Entertainment to stop dubbing anime - With Harsh Words for fansubbers from President Sherman
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Just some anime fan from South Florida in her 20s.
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NOTE: Edited to be less reactionary. Sorry to be so confusing. - TJG

Bang Zoom Entertainment, the California-based studio best known among anime fans for providing English-language tracks to several US anime titles and better known to all as the location where Conan O'Brien and Andy Richter recorded their parody dubs of Ghost in the Shell and Blood: The Last Vampire, might stop dubbing anime in 2011.



In an editorial entitled "Anime - R.I.P." from Bang Zoom Entertainment President Eric P. Sherman earlier this month, Sherman places the blame for the US industry's demise squarely on fansubbers. Sherman cites the loss of Geneon, CPM and ADV as well as Best Buy pulling all but the top 20 performing anime titles from their shelves on the lack of sales due to fans choosing to download rather than buy:

"If people don’t resist the urge to get their fix illegally, the entire industry is about to fizzle out. It won’t be a big dramatic change at this point. Last year we saw Bandai fire 90% of their staff on one Monday in January, and two years ago we saw Geneon (neé Pioneer) shut their doors and auction off their wares to the highest bidder. CPM died a slow, painful death. And ADV fell hard and fast, the way mighty giants will. But from here on, it won’t be so exciting. Japan is already suffering and struggling to bring out quality titles. They can’t rely on everything being picked up by US distributors anymore. And little by little, it just won’t be here anymore.

You can’t find much anime at Best Buy now. In fact, where can you find it for sale? Think about that. There are fewer new titles coming out, and less and less stuff will be in English, because it’s just not worth the cost of dubbing it. It’s true that entertainment distribution models are going to be changing dramatically. DVD may be on the way out forever, and online TV is becoming a reality very quickly. But so far, there are no successful ways to monetize online entertainment. Not so that creators can afford to produce and distribute quality content.

Anime is going to die."

Click here to read Sherman's entire blog entry.

NOTE: The emphasis above is Sherman's not mine.

My thoughts: While I've tried to limit my use of fansubs over the years and only cover things that can be accessed legally for my site, I'd be lying if I said that I never use them ever. Fansubbing is both a bane and boon for the anime industry - more fans than ever, but less and less people going out of their way to buy. I can imagine Bang Zoom being especially bitter. Series that set the Internet ablaze in fansub form haven't had as much success on DVD, such as The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Lucky Star and Gurren Lagann - all Bang Zoom dubs (Gurren Lagann's lack of sales can also be attributed to an extremely confusing release schedule, but that's for another day).

It's also not surprising that anime dubbing wouldn't be profitable for Bang Zoom anymore. Companies once associated with Bang Zoom, such as Geneon and Bandai Entertainment, have either long gone out of business or have gone sub only. Since the near-monopoly FUNimation does their own dubbing inhouse, its unlikely Bang Zoom would get more business in the anime world.

However, the blame can't ALL be placed on the fans. The phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you" comes to mind. As in, don't blame your target audience because they're not buying enough of your product (granted I could turn around and use this phrase to point at the fans who try to justify never buying anything). As has been pointed out many times before, pretty much every company except FUNimation has failed to adapt to the times by neglecting to do market research, studying fandom communities and for a long time ignoring the growing trends in fansubbing, which is far from a recent problem. On the contrary, fansubbing has existed for about as long as anime could be recorded in any form.

Some blame needs to be spread to the Japanese anime market as well. Part of the reason we have to wait so long to get legitimate DVDs is because of the high fear of reverse importation, something that wouldn't be as much of a problem if Japanese DVDs weren't exponentially more expensive than their US counterparts. However, this cost is somewhat of a necessity in what is a very niche market. There's also the growing trend of a majority of anime having moe themes that really only appeal to that niche otaku market in Japan and nowhere else. While I consider myself a moe fan, I'm not going to watch 10 moe shows a season and I think other moe fans can agree that's overkill. However, in an industry where the only people who are buying are the diehard otaku, it makes perfect business sense to pander to them and them alone if you know the product you're pushing out will sell.

So how does anime become profitable again? Well, if I knew the answer to that I'd be a very rich woman. There's been some success in legal streaming sites, but as Sherman himself points out they've yet to really turn a profit. Even sites like Crunchyroll depend not only on people buying premium memberships, but also on those people watching every show that they've licensed the streaming rights for, and in great numbers. Crunchyroll has in fact lost quite a bit of money on some shows.

But at least they're trying. As Einstein once said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The Japan Girl




Legacy Comments

i rent my anime from netflix. If anime here in america was half price of what they are now, THEN i would buy any anime i desire to watch.
and, oh yeah, That last part in blood with conan always gets to me lol
As I am far from an expert on the matter I would normally avoid posting on a topic like this as if it where the plague... Sherman's blog post just doesn't sit well with me.

"Part of the reason we have to wait so long to get legitimate DVDs is because of the high fear of reverse importation, something that wouldn't be as much of a problem if Japanese DVDs weren't exponentially more expensive than their US counterparts. However, this cost is somewhat of a necessity in what is a very niche market."

While the price does play a part I don't think blaming the market on being "niche" or small is really fair. From what I have read the resale market in Japan on games, manga, and anime is huge. I think the problem with Japan's pricing has much more to do with its resale market taking so much of the profit and a Japanese culture of waiting to buy stuff when its cheaper then a "need" to gouge its fans to stay in business.

I don't have any interest in trying to justify fansubs... but I do agree that the problem stems from Japan if they want to strengthen anime's global presence they need reduce the price of local sales and change Japan's culture of marketing to be less supportive of resale that or they need to start adding English subs to Japanese releases and giving us a way to join in on Japans resale marketing.

Regardless of the problem blaming fans is just a lame thing to do. Without fans anime companies have no reason to exist and no income to begin with. Its as simple as that. Will anime die because of it? No it won't dubing might become less popular or even go the extreme and stop altogether. But anime will not die because of anything that happens to an American company. Unless an America company starts producing its own "anime" this will never change.

Whatever does happen in the future will be reflective of fan desire and money. Citing the death of companies that so many anime fans had issues with is meaningless. Years ago before the fall of Geneon and ADV Funimation was doing things right and giving fans what they wanted. Its thanks to this that Funimation is still going strong. As for Best Buy pulling disks from its shelves... I'm sure it hasn't helped sell anime in America but Amazon has been a cheaper way to collect those dvd's for years and you don't even need to leave your bedroom to do it. Lets not forget the part played by the global recession in all this as well.

Its one thing to call out to your fans and ask for support. Its another altogether when they start blaming a portion of the fanbase for killing off business. I wish companies such as "Bang Zoom Entertainment" would keep all this in mind and avoid posting garbage like this in the future.
The reason Fansubs are a recent issue is internet capacity. When Fansubs first came out it took a while to be able to download them. Now you can set it to download and be ready to watch in 5 minutes.
Like many, I rent my anime and buy manga. My budget (and my aversion from getting cluttered with too much stuff) keeps me from doing much more than that. At the same time, though, I try to use fansubs as little as possible (basically only when it is unavailable in America).

I think the real problem, though, is that the economy in general is in the crapper and the anime industry is affected by it just the same as everyone else. Couple that with the fact that all media providers have been very slow to adapt to the changing ways in which consumers want to get their media and we have a crisis that would exist with or without fansubs. I love Mr. Sherman for the great work Bang Zoom! has done over the years and and it is horrible for anyone to go through such tough times with their business. The blame, though, I think is misplaced.

I just hope that as our economy slowly recovers that companies like Bang Zoom! can gain back some ground and use that to find better ways to sell what I still believe to be a great product.
@Lifesong: "Regardless of the problem blaming fans is just a lame thing to do. Without fans anime companies have no reason to exist and no income to begin with." Even if it's their fault, you shouldn't blame them? If people are fans but don't spend any money on it, then the anime companies don't even know that those people exist. They don't know what kinds of shows their major market wants to see. Couple that with the economic conditions of today, and I think from there they go with the safe bets (moe, generic shounen, generic shoujo) that will get the most attention and the most customers. Maybe that's too much theorycrafting on my part, but it seems to make sense.

I think that placing the blame solely on the fans is ignorant, uncalled for, and just plain wrong; but the fans are definitely part of the issue. The blog post as a whole is too melodramatic, and it's certainly not going to stop many people from pirating.
It's worth noting that FUNimation is about the only group that is able to sell their DVDs on the cheap. I got the entirety of Baccano! for some $30-$35, whereas that's the cost for a *third* of Gurren Lagann. Yes, I want the DVDs on my shelf, but I'm not willing to shell out that much for the whole series.
You know I dont recall Sherman actually saying that they will stop dubbing anime in'11. You shouldn't make conclusions like that without substantial proof. All he really said was that if people dont stop torrenting then they will most likely be abandoning the anime dubbing thing. Basically Sherman is trying to scare some fans in to stopping their torrenting with the threat of no more bang zoom dubs. That's what it seems like to me any way. No where in there did he actually say that bang zoom would officially be stopping their dubbing of anime for 2011. I understand where he is coming from however I think he could have approached this topic better. In my opinion this really comes back to the old endless dubs vs. subs war that will never end.
@gwjunkie While I understand where you are coming from fans are not simply part of the issue the entire market revolves around fans. It should be the company's responsibility to cater to and provide a service for fans and not the other way around. Using fans as a scape goat for failing at business just shows how low a company truly has fallen.
I know this a bit off topic but wasn't the reason for ADV going down was because they tried to do too many things at once too fast like running newtype USA, making an Anime Channel, doing manga, besides distributing and dubbing DVDs. Then Geneon, their single volumes and box sets were too expensive. So in a way fan subs have nothing to do with it or downloading titles, ADV should have took it slow like how Funimation did to build up and Geneon should have considered lowering the prices on their dvds. Bang Zoom just needs to open up their market a bit more since one of their main clients is gone, maybe go to Viz, Funimation and Media Blasters besides just Bandai and maybe open up to other dubs outside of anime.

Is it me or is their threat a bit childish for a person working for a professional dubbing company? Also his blog didn't have enough info to justify his defense or any elaboration. As for Bestbuy, has he considered that most people might get their stuff online due to the deals they can find on those sites like how rightstuf.com has a sale on certain titles every week. As for streaming, it helps people watch the shows so that they know what they are getting into, and since the quality is lower than dvd and bluray (As Jon Snyder pointed out in the podcast), it might get those who want that quality to buy it in disk format.

If it does happen, its not like we are missing anything. There will always be people there to dub anime in the US and new people will jump on the ride as time goes on.
The companies with their bloated catalogs and outdated business models will look up and shout "Save us!" And I'll whisper, "...No"
@The_Kenji

I never said he said that in his blog post. In fact, I believe I actually said that post was made earlier in the month.

But since you asked for proof: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-04-26/ceo/bang-zoom-to-cease-anime-dubbing-in-2011-without-fan-support
@The_Kenji

Ah, I apologize, I misread the comment.

I understand your point. But if Sherman's intention with his blog post was to use it as a scare tactic to get fans to start buying more, I think it had the opposite result. Rather his own words have may have been the final nail in the coffin, as reading threads on the topic have shown that fans are taking it as a sign of them throwing in the towel. And really, who's left to buy their dubs?
@Rangoric
That's true, but it's not like we only got to this point recently. Most people I knew had high speed Internet long before my dad finally gave in and ditched the dial up when I was in high school, and that was six years ago. It's not like it snuck up on them.
The usage patterns have only in the past few years really started to change though. So while bandwidth has gone up, how people used that bandwidth hasn't progressed quite as fast.

Only recently has usage been closer to what is available.
@Rangoric

In terms of streaming fansubs and their increasing availability, absolutely. But I'd say the the use of fansubs began rapidly progressing even before that. Like around when everyone and their grandma started using bittorrent.
The only way I would buy the DVDs would be if the American companies would just forget about the dub and release it at the same time as the Japanese ones with subtitles. Right now they just take too long and the shows are already old by the time they re-release them...
@Sanori

My understanding of the lengthy delays is that it sometimes has less to do with the the time it takes to dub a show and more to do with the Japanese license holder being so afraid of reverse importation that they make it a contract stipulation that the DVD don't be released until X amount of time after its been available in Japan. But that might be more of a problem with Blu-ray than DVD.
You can region lock both DVD and Blu-ray discs though.
@Sanori

Most Blu-ray releases aren't region locked, and even if they were Japan and the US are both region A for Blu-ray.

While the DVDs are different regions, anyone can download a video player that'll play DVDs for all regions. I watch all my region 2 DVDs on VLC player.
They're just cheesed that no one that uses them has the business sence not die and hence they're not geting work.

Me thinks they should get thier thumb out before they scream at consumers, otherwise, you just have a guy with a thumb in his ass screaming at you.


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