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4:00 AM on 03.04.2010
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Fan service of American media: Explosions.
Fan Service of Japanese Media: Panties/boobs/ect.
In moderation these can supplement your viewing (assuming in either case your actually into that type of fan service to begin with).
In other cases they can do it so hard and so often that it becomes a nuisance as if the show it self can't support it self on it's own right without those things.
I would not expect wholly straight women in any sense to understand Japanese fan service, it'd be like if you took muscled half naked men and put them in front me, I wouldn't be able to tell you what the attraction was, I would just sit there disgusted and wait for it to be over.
Fan Service of Japanese Media: Panties/boobs/ect.
In moderation these can supplement your viewing (assuming in either case your actually into that type of fan service to begin with).
In other cases they can do it so hard and so often that it becomes a nuisance as if the show it self can't support it self on it's own right without those things.
I would not expect wholly straight women in any sense to understand Japanese fan service, it'd be like if you took muscled half naked men and put them in front me, I wouldn't be able to tell you what the attraction was, I would just sit there disgusted and wait for it to be over.
So in summary: Carlo Santos is a male and you are not. Or is that too easy?
I'm quite sure I wouldn't enjoy this show at all, but you sure make it sound fascinating.
I'm quite sure I wouldn't enjoy this show at all, but you sure make it sound fascinating.
I haven't seen any of Chu-Bra, but I can kind of understand the point you're making here, which is (I think) "If it's plot-relevant, is it really fan-service?" I always had the view that fan-service was something "extra" that might not be necessary to tell the story, hence it's a "service," used in the way Japanese retail uses it to denote some bonus benefit given to a consumer. But fanservice is also about the "attitude" behind the exposure. If an anime series has a girl standing in her underwear because she's getting dressed early in the morning to go to school so her club can meet before the first class, I don't consider that to be particularly fanservicey. Simply showing a girl in underwear isn't automatically fanservice, just like showing a guy without a shirt isn't automatically manservice. It's just a character in a state of undress. If you see the same scene, but before getting dressed, the girl looks into her mirror and poses, then squishes her boobs together and says "Oh-ho, I think they're getting a little bigger, ufufufufu~," then yeah, that's fanservice. If I had to posit a one-liner about whether or not something fanservice, I'd say "fanservice is conspicuous." It makes sure you know it's there.
From what I understand, though, it doesn't seem like Chu-Bra is conspicuous in what one would call its fan-service. It's called that because it displays what, in other series, would likely be fanservice, but the fact that the whole series is about lingerie kind of negates its "exotic" nature. It's like...what if there were a series about a girl who starts working at a Victoria's Secrets store in order to match a grant that would let her attend a good college, and while there, she helps other women pick out lingerie while also helping them confront their own uncertainties about their bodies, about their secret fears in love, and stuff like that. You'd automatically think "whoa, fanservice all over for the guys," until you realize that the actual customers don't look like underwear models themselves, and what you get could be a story that was about "stripping down" to the root of their emotional hangups. Which would probably still be more mature and fanservicey than Chu-Bra given the general clientele of VS, but that's just the half-baked example I cooked up when thinking about how something that would ordinarily conjure instant thoughts of fan-service could, in reality, not be that fanservicey at all, if that made any sense.
From what I understand, though, it doesn't seem like Chu-Bra is conspicuous in what one would call its fan-service. It's called that because it displays what, in other series, would likely be fanservice, but the fact that the whole series is about lingerie kind of negates its "exotic" nature. It's like...what if there were a series about a girl who starts working at a Victoria's Secrets store in order to match a grant that would let her attend a good college, and while there, she helps other women pick out lingerie while also helping them confront their own uncertainties about their bodies, about their secret fears in love, and stuff like that. You'd automatically think "whoa, fanservice all over for the guys," until you realize that the actual customers don't look like underwear models themselves, and what you get could be a story that was about "stripping down" to the root of their emotional hangups. Which would probably still be more mature and fanservicey than Chu-Bra given the general clientele of VS, but that's just the half-baked example I cooked up when thinking about how something that would ordinarily conjure instant thoughts of fan-service could, in reality, not be that fanservicey at all, if that made any sense.
Here's my own take on Carlo Santos' words:
In addition, the high quantities of fanservice—undressing scenes, upskirt shots, and boob jokes—quickly grow tiresome. In most other series, this kind of SHIT is something that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH the main story, but here, it becomes the story itself, which is like having all SHIT and no cake.
He incorrectly stated that fanservice is supplementary. It's not. It's either completely unrelated to the story (most shows I watch), or it's there because the show is centered around fanservice (so called "harem/romantic-comedy" dirty pleasure shows)
Chu-bra is something else entirely. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure.
In addition, the high quantities of fanservice—undressing scenes, upskirt shots, and boob jokes—quickly grow tiresome. In most other series, this kind of SHIT is something that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH the main story, but here, it becomes the story itself, which is like having all SHIT and no cake.
He incorrectly stated that fanservice is supplementary. It's not. It's either completely unrelated to the story (most shows I watch), or it's there because the show is centered around fanservice (so called "harem/romantic-comedy" dirty pleasure shows)
Chu-bra is something else entirely. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure.
I'm not a great fan of too much fan-service but I have been really enjoying chu-bra! Although I do find it annoying that the name makes it look as if I'm exited or shouting sentances because of the exclimation mark, lol. Anyway, it's a pretty intersting stroy and I've learned quite a lot about underwear because of it, seriously. Anyway, it's about underwear, of course there's going to be fanservice.
For me, fanservice is an annoyance at worse. I avoid showing new anime fans anything with panty shots, which really limits the newer shows I can think of. But I don't have a visceral reaction to it like this author does, and as simplistic as it sounds, it's probably because I am a guy. If Japan had developed as a matriarchal society and fans service was all bare chested teen guys and low hanging boxers, I'd probably write this same post.
Nice.
1. Loli:Grave::Small:Shallow
2. I totally think that Komachi is better than Santos. In a nutshell, the show recognizes the duality of underwear (and for that matter, casual nudity or whatever that turns pervs on yet happens normally during a woman's day to day activities) and what it represents. To some people, Chu-Bra is like Kiyono's perspective on things, and that only. That is fail!
1. Loli:Grave::Small:Shallow
2. I totally think that Komachi is better than Santos. In a nutshell, the show recognizes the duality of underwear (and for that matter, casual nudity or whatever that turns pervs on yet happens normally during a woman's day to day activities) and what it represents. To some people, Chu-Bra is like Kiyono's perspective on things, and that only. That is fail!
Wait a second, I think that a large point is being missed. It's called "FAN Service", implying that it is for something for Fans.
I'm creating a community blog right now to further this discussion.
I'm creating a community blog right now to further this discussion.
Actually, if used in moderation, fanservice can be quite useful in advancing the story. A case in point is Sekirei, a wonderful series if you haven't seen it.
There's fanservice in it, but it's not constant, and when it happens, it usually moves the plot along in some way. Take a look, and judge for yourself:
http://www.animefreak.tv/watch/sekirei-english-dubbed-online-free
There's fanservice in it, but it's not constant, and when it happens, it usually moves the plot along in some way. Take a look, and judge for yourself:
http://www.animefreak.tv/watch/sekirei-english-dubbed-online-free
@Jeff Chuang: You're so awesome:)
While it's true that being a straight female means I don't get the appeal of most fan service the same way guys do, I don't think it's as simple as a male/female split. Shizuo from Durarara! looks about as good to me as an animated male is likely to get, and I honestly would not want to see him walking around shirtless all the time for no reason, or something like that- it would just seem totally out of place and on some level, disrespectful. If it was simply a male/female split, I would just want more fan service oriented in my direction, right? But that doesn't seem to be the case.
While it's true that being a straight female means I don't get the appeal of most fan service the same way guys do, I don't think it's as simple as a male/female split. Shizuo from Durarara! looks about as good to me as an animated male is likely to get, and I honestly would not want to see him walking around shirtless all the time for no reason, or something like that- it would just seem totally out of place and on some level, disrespectful. If it was simply a male/female split, I would just want more fan service oriented in my direction, right? But that doesn't seem to be the case.
Originally, before I really knew the plot I thought this was going to be 'Just A Fan Service Show' but having watched 9 episodes of it, I think Mr. Santos has gravely missed something out. Because to be honest, Chuu-Bra!! isn't THAT bad.
He writes:
"..this is the end of anime as we know it."
WOW. I'm surprised he didn't just hand out F grades all round, since it's an anime that induces rage of the anime ARMAGEDDON. Maybe Mr. Santos is like Komachi-kun, maybe he needs to stop seeing underwear as something ero, then perhaps he'll understand that this show isn't just about fan service. Hasn't he learnt anything from Chuu-Bra!! that's 5 episodes worth of information there?
I just watched Ladies vs. Butlers last night to view some bouncing breasts upon the first animation frame. Now that's fan service for you. It doesn't add anything to the story really, you just see breasts cause she's taking a shower.
He writes:
"..this is the end of anime as we know it."
WOW. I'm surprised he didn't just hand out F grades all round, since it's an anime that induces rage of the anime ARMAGEDDON. Maybe Mr. Santos is like Komachi-kun, maybe he needs to stop seeing underwear as something ero, then perhaps he'll understand that this show isn't just about fan service. Hasn't he learnt anything from Chuu-Bra!! that's 5 episodes worth of information there?
I just watched Ladies vs. Butlers last night to view some bouncing breasts upon the first animation frame. Now that's fan service for you. It doesn't add anything to the story really, you just see breasts cause she's taking a shower.
I don't think too hard about it. I think Lost Horizon said it best. Plus, the nonconformist in me loves all these things that people hate. Chu-bra forever!
One thing I don't know if I've every mentioned specifically while writing about Chu-Bra!! is that I hit puberty and had my full adult body very early (age 11), so I had that "child-trapped-in-a-woman's-body" problem that the show deals with for quite a while; that background is part of why it's interesting to me. While I don't think you have to have that kind of background to get something out of it, I'm not surprised or upset that some people have no interest in it.
Honestly, I didn't read the ANN review of Chu-bra. The ANN review people tend to just generically hate all things with significant fan service, so I assumed the review would follow that tact.
In terms of fan service in Chu-bra, technically it is pretty high on it if you could underwear and partial nudity as inherently "fan service." In Chu-bra, however, a high percentage of it IS plot-driven and not just in the harem "plot" idea of "oh you mistakenly saw my panties main character you are a pervert/idiot." The girls have issues with underwear and body related issues and Chu-bra deals with them.
So, I don't agree with the ANN review but the series supports such a superficial read if you just look at the opening and a few scenes and ignore the plot. If you believe panties = bad/dirty you can't like the show even though it has a pretty good plot. I'm personally surprised by the amount of plot and character development in the series. That is the focus of the series, the underwear is only a means to explore female body issues and relationships.
In terms of fan service in Chu-bra, technically it is pretty high on it if you could underwear and partial nudity as inherently "fan service." In Chu-bra, however, a high percentage of it IS plot-driven and not just in the harem "plot" idea of "oh you mistakenly saw my panties main character you are a pervert/idiot." The girls have issues with underwear and body related issues and Chu-bra deals with them.
So, I don't agree with the ANN review but the series supports such a superficial read if you just look at the opening and a few scenes and ignore the plot. If you believe panties = bad/dirty you can't like the show even though it has a pretty good plot. I'm personally surprised by the amount of plot and character development in the series. That is the focus of the series, the underwear is only a means to explore female body issues and relationships.
I haven't watched Chu-Bra - but I think that in some cases, something being "dirty" or gratuitously sexually charged can add artistic texture to it. I'm not just talking about anime, I think this applies to movies and novels as well.
You might be totally right about Chu-Bra, that the sexy stuff detracts from it. I think what I'm objecting to - and maybe this isn't what you're saying - is the notion that sexual/dirty/whatever stuff has to be serious and emotionally realistic in order to be artistically meritorious. For example, I think there are a lot of exploitation and genre movies, (as well as anime) that have sexual stuff that is gratuitous but also artistic. The sex in those movies isn't necessarily satirical, or necessarily a happy, positive thing - yet there can be an eccentric, and even troubling beauty in it. Sometimes there's beauty in in the dirt - maybe because the world is or feels like a dirty place sometimes.
I will say - most anime that I really love, for whatever reason, doesn't happen to have much "fanservice" - although there's also some anime that I'm very fond of that does, and my fondness for those shows isn't "in spite of" the dirty stuff.
I'm not sure whether what I'm saying here is at odds with your article. Maybe we don't disagree.
You might be totally right about Chu-Bra, that the sexy stuff detracts from it. I think what I'm objecting to - and maybe this isn't what you're saying - is the notion that sexual/dirty/whatever stuff has to be serious and emotionally realistic in order to be artistically meritorious. For example, I think there are a lot of exploitation and genre movies, (as well as anime) that have sexual stuff that is gratuitous but also artistic. The sex in those movies isn't necessarily satirical, or necessarily a happy, positive thing - yet there can be an eccentric, and even troubling beauty in it. Sometimes there's beauty in in the dirt - maybe because the world is or feels like a dirty place sometimes.
I will say - most anime that I really love, for whatever reason, doesn't happen to have much "fanservice" - although there's also some anime that I'm very fond of that does, and my fondness for those shows isn't "in spite of" the dirty stuff.
I'm not sure whether what I'm saying here is at odds with your article. Maybe we don't disagree.
Too much moe. I hope over abundance of it collapses the anime industry soon, and Japan learns their lesson, starts from scratch.
I have never enjoyed fanservice in a show, and it really annoys me. Moe in a cute/innocent way such as Kamichu is just about the best thing ever, but too much fanservice can certainly keep me away from a show.
"Fan service of American media: Explosions.
Fan Service of Japanese Media: Panties/boobs/ect."
Agreed.
Now, imagine this scene: a soldier shoots a vehicle and it explodes. It makes some kind of sense. But here is the equivalent american fanservice to how anime scene is today:
-Obi-wan fights Anakin in the lava pit. They explode.
-Neo fights Smith. They explode.
-Forrest Gump runs through the field. The field explodes.
-A couple is nearly kissing each other in a romantic scene. Both explode.
-People talk in the park. Everything explodes.
Panty shots and big breasts are EVERYWHERE in anime, even when they don't make any sense, nor are a joke. They are there just because. I hate this shit and that's why I think this is one of the worst seasons ever.
Explosions can be awesome, but would you watch 23 minutes of stuff exploding with no plot? That's the american version of Chu-Bra!! for you.
Someone please explain to me: why watch an anime about panties and breasts instead of watching hentai, if you love porn so much? Because most animes this season are just softcore hentai.
Fan Service of Japanese Media: Panties/boobs/ect."
Agreed.
Now, imagine this scene: a soldier shoots a vehicle and it explodes. It makes some kind of sense. But here is the equivalent american fanservice to how anime scene is today:
-Obi-wan fights Anakin in the lava pit. They explode.
-Neo fights Smith. They explode.
-Forrest Gump runs through the field. The field explodes.
-A couple is nearly kissing each other in a romantic scene. Both explode.
-People talk in the park. Everything explodes.
Panty shots and big breasts are EVERYWHERE in anime, even when they don't make any sense, nor are a joke. They are there just because. I hate this shit and that's why I think this is one of the worst seasons ever.
Explosions can be awesome, but would you watch 23 minutes of stuff exploding with no plot? That's the american version of Chu-Bra!! for you.
Someone please explain to me: why watch an anime about panties and breasts instead of watching hentai, if you love porn so much? Because most animes this season are just softcore hentai.
Rank57, that's not really an accurate generalization. There's also anime both now and in the past that has an amorous tone and cute "fanservice" type stuff that's not intended as porn and is slightly dirty in a way that's consistent with the show's tone and humor. One's primary motivation for watching it is quite different from one's primary motivation for looking at porn.
> Someone please explain to me: why watch an anime about panties and breasts instead of watching hentai, if you love porn so much?
Because fanservice can be so much more entertaining than just straight porn. Najica: Blitz Tactics is so awesomely ridiculously glorious.
Because fanservice can be so much more entertaining than just straight porn. Najica: Blitz Tactics is so awesomely ridiculously glorious.
That's a good point too, Zargas. I mean, what Rank is saying is kind of like telling someone who likes Wakamatsu movies that they should simply look at Playboy if they want to see something with sexual content.
I've been watching this and keeping up with it. Why? I do not know. Although I do remember the whole stink about Kodomo no Jikan, and perhaps it's the controversy that draws me to it.
Here's my beef with it: What does Chu-Bra want to be?
-A lightheated moe' show about young girls in school that HAPPENS to have underwear in it
-A fan-service expo for basement dwellers who enjoy the 'sights' of young girls
-An educational anime about proper underwear usage
Seriously! Maybe that's why I'm still watching it? Its a tripolar show, and I guess watching it is like watching 3 shows in one?
Here's my beef with it: What does Chu-Bra want to be?
-A lightheated moe' show about young girls in school that HAPPENS to have underwear in it
-A fan-service expo for basement dwellers who enjoy the 'sights' of young girls
-An educational anime about proper underwear usage
Seriously! Maybe that's why I'm still watching it? Its a tripolar show, and I guess watching it is like watching 3 shows in one?
I have noticed the shows I like are very low on the fanservice. Come to think of it, I don't think Kimi ni Todoke has had any fanservice, and as far as I remember, the only fanservice on Durarara was Celty's shower scene.
Why don't I give a couple of examples of recent shows that come to mind in relation to what I'm talking about. This isn't directly related to Chu-bra, which I haven't seen, but more the general idea of dirty stuff in anime. I don't really keep up with lots of stuff that's airing now because I'm a relatively new anime fan and there's lots of stuff from years past for me to watch.
One example is Sora no Otoshimono. It's rather dirty - not explicitly so, although I'm not sure whether that's really relevant - and it's also somewhat perverse. But I think it's also interesting, funny, creative, and actually genuinely moving at times, and I think its perversity is part of how it achieves that, not something that stands in opposition to those things. Specifically, the show to me is partially about how perversity can co-exist with kindness and people protecting each other from harm.
Another example is To Love-Ru, which has a lighter tone than Sora no Otoshimono. Besides being funny/cute/whatever, I think the dirty jokes interact in an interesting way with its positivity and its depiction kindness and loyalty - which I think are very real things in the show despite it being structured as a high-school sex comedy. And again, I don't think the dirtiness is external to those things or in opposition to them, but rather an important part of the overall texture. One scene in the show that comes to mind - I don't remember all the details - but Princess Lala is on the roof of the school and she realizes suddenly that Yuki has lied to her about something...and she's actually deeply hurt by it. She doesn't understand why he would do something like that because - don't they love each other? The show is sort of about how little dirty sexy things are real, and so are friendship and caring and whatnot. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I suppose these observations will be ridiculed, but that's just how the internet works. :)
One example is Sora no Otoshimono. It's rather dirty - not explicitly so, although I'm not sure whether that's really relevant - and it's also somewhat perverse. But I think it's also interesting, funny, creative, and actually genuinely moving at times, and I think its perversity is part of how it achieves that, not something that stands in opposition to those things. Specifically, the show to me is partially about how perversity can co-exist with kindness and people protecting each other from harm.
Another example is To Love-Ru, which has a lighter tone than Sora no Otoshimono. Besides being funny/cute/whatever, I think the dirty jokes interact in an interesting way with its positivity and its depiction kindness and loyalty - which I think are very real things in the show despite it being structured as a high-school sex comedy. And again, I don't think the dirtiness is external to those things or in opposition to them, but rather an important part of the overall texture. One scene in the show that comes to mind - I don't remember all the details - but Princess Lala is on the roof of the school and she realizes suddenly that Yuki has lied to her about something...and she's actually deeply hurt by it. She doesn't understand why he would do something like that because - don't they love each other? The show is sort of about how little dirty sexy things are real, and so are friendship and caring and whatnot. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I suppose these observations will be ridiculed, but that's just how the internet works. :)
Also, I'll add - the fact that the two shows I mentioned deliver those things in an over-the-top, gratuitous-seeming way is part of what makes them effective.
> Come to think of it, I don't think Kimi ni Todoke has had any fanservice
Sure, if you're talking about fanservice for boys. However, Kimi ni Todoke's target audience is girls, so all of its fanservice operates on different cliches and more abstract methods derived from shoujo manga.
Sure, if you're talking about fanservice for boys. However, Kimi ni Todoke's target audience is girls, so all of its fanservice operates on different cliches and more abstract methods derived from shoujo manga.
Is it really fanservice? Just because you get a shot of the breasts or panties doesn't necessarily make it fanservice in my opinion. To regard Chu-Bra!! as a fanservice show is an idiotic viewpoint. Sure, sometimes there is pointless fanservice, but when the image relates to the story is it really fanservice? Taken literally fanservice could be anything that is used to entice a viewer. As stated by Neonie, explosions could be taken as fanservice. Although different people have different interests and fetishes. Simply believing that breasts, panties, and the like automatically classifies something is fanservice, or heavy in fanservice, is a very ignorant and immature mindset. To summarize: O MY GAWD! HER BEWBS R HUGE N I CAN C DEM. IT MUST BE EVIL! QUICK, WE MUST ATTACK IT WITHOUT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT! (Note: There obviously /isn't/ any sarcasm in there... >_>)
It is a show about underwear and what it means to be a girl going through puberty, because underwear is a huge piece of that. Hell they even explain the difference between underwear for little girls and women and WHY it is different. Grown women can learn from this show.
>> Someone please explain to me: why watch an anime about panties and breasts instead of watching hentai, if you love porn so much
Which is cute, because Karen doesn't like porn, but does like Chu Bra, Rosario Vampire, Love Hina, and a multitude of others. There is a middle ground between fully clothed unsexual anime, and porn. Also the "fan service" in Chu Bra is mostly a joke. The only episode that has been fan servicy in the show so far is the hot springs episode. The rest is very tame because of context. (If you need help with "context", it can be arranged)
>> Explosions can be awesome, but would you watch 23 minutes of stuff exploding with no plot? That's the american version of Chu-Bra!! for you.
Chu-Bra!! has a plot, but thanks for playing.
>> Someone please explain to me: why watch an anime about panties and breasts instead of watching hentai, if you love porn so much
Which is cute, because Karen doesn't like porn, but does like Chu Bra, Rosario Vampire, Love Hina, and a multitude of others. There is a middle ground between fully clothed unsexual anime, and porn. Also the "fan service" in Chu Bra is mostly a joke. The only episode that has been fan servicy in the show so far is the hot springs episode. The rest is very tame because of context. (If you need help with "context", it can be arranged)
>> Explosions can be awesome, but would you watch 23 minutes of stuff exploding with no plot? That's the american version of Chu-Bra!! for you.
Chu-Bra!! has a plot, but thanks for playing.
@Marlin Clock: I think there's a strong argument to be made that Celty's shower scene wasn't fanservice; it was meant to show her as vulnerable and human-like, which is the opposite of the idea that people in Ikebukuro have of the 'headless rider'. Plus, it sets the tone for Shinra and Celty's relationship- to him, she's a really hot girl in the shower, headless and all. It's really good visual shorthand for the fact that he sees her as a woman first, not a Dullahan/monster/spirit/whatever.
I think fanservice ruins shows, hands down. If there's a good reason for it, okay, but having fanservice is a GOAL, then you've failed at writing a good show. The more fanservice, the lower the quality of the show. The only thing it's there for is to make up for the lack of quality.
@vedicardi
So, let me get this straight. Since Chu-Bra only has 1 fan service episode, only 1 episode is bad?
Or are you going to now say that showing panties at all is fan service?
So, let me get this straight. Since Chu-Bra only has 1 fan service episode, only 1 episode is bad?
Or are you going to now say that showing panties at all is fan service?
@Zargas She's my Fan Service character on the show. While I like the Celty character, she's not my style.
I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that Karen a similar hair length, color, glasses, and um, curves. Nothing at all :)
I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that Karen a similar hair length, color, glasses, and um, curves. Nothing at all :)
I haven't and probably will not watch Chu-Bra!! it just doesn't interest me. I do think ANN having a guy review a series about a girl how forms a lingerie club was a stupid move on their part.
Reading the wiki entry alone should send a signal that this series may not interest most male viewers and will have fan service.
It seems to me ANN reviewers go in with the thought of if its not like series x then its a knock off and utter crap. Or my childhood is ruined... all anime must be Like robotech and starblazers.
Also American entertainment :
Sex = Taboo never to be spoken of.
Violence = Its all okay.
Reading the wiki entry alone should send a signal that this series may not interest most male viewers and will have fan service.
It seems to me ANN reviewers go in with the thought of if its not like series x then its a knock off and utter crap. Or my childhood is ruined... all anime must be Like robotech and starblazers.
Also American entertainment :
Sex = Taboo never to be spoken of.
Violence = Its all okay.
I like icing, but actually dislike cake.
I have no idea what this means for the State Of The Metaphor.(TM)
I have no idea what this means for the State Of The Metaphor.(TM)
While I haven't had time to watch any series this season other than Hanumaru Kindergarden (DAMN YOU SCHOOL!!!) I have to agree, from what I heard, all the bra/panty/etc. shots are not useless "Oh you're still watching this, so here's a shirtless back-shot to tease your crotch!" but are relevant to the premise of the plot.
Also, yes I have banned myself from ANN reviews for months now, they're a bit biased/not knowing what they're thinking.
Also, yes I have banned myself from ANN reviews for months now, they're a bit biased/not knowing what they're thinking.
Yeah, I'm totally not a fan of ANN reviews in general either. The rods up their asses must have rods up their asses. The lone exception would be those Buried Treasure/Garbage articles, they're always worth the read.
Speaking of Hanamaru, I'm surprised the moral cavaliers worldwide are not burning down their respective cities over the show's ALLEGED CHILD ROMANCES!!!
Speaking of Hanamaru, I'm surprised the moral cavaliers worldwide are not burning down their respective cities over the show's ALLEGED CHILD ROMANCES!!!
I didn't mean to criticize ANN so much as a certain view in otakudom that happened to come to my attention via ANN, but it's interesting to read people's opinions regardless.
That's an interesting point, and has convinced me to give the show a chance. I'm also extremely un-fond of fanservice, but like you said, you just kind of have to get used to it if you want to watch enough stuff to find the gems.
So, I did give the first ep a try, and I can see your point. There are some really good themes in here, and themes that I would love to see spread to anime in general. I particularly liked the treatment of Hayama - she's an intelligent and model student, but people assume she's some kind of sex-crazed teenage prostitute simply because she likes attractive, well-fitting underwear. I think that underlines very nicely the general cultural madonna/whore complex - women must be virginal, naive nuns, because liking anything with any sort of sexual subtext or connotation makes them sluts.
However, I think that for all the positive messges, the show is presented very, very badly. For instance, in the mall: Jinguji and Shiraishi are reflecting on underwear and therefor, by an inexplicit, subtextual extension, on female sexuality in general. They think about how they can't talk to anyone about it, about how their bodies are constantly changing but their hearts can't keep up, particularly in this atmosphere of enforced silence. This is an important, powerful moment, a moment with a lot of drama, as well as the basic thesis of the show, and what's on the screen? The two of them, naked but for thin, pink ribbons covering their nipples and genitals. Keep it classy, fellas.
Of course it goes on and on, with all the crypto panty-shots. On the stairs, hiding behind bushes, when the teacher gets on her bike; any time any one is even vaguely bent at the waist is treated as a free opportunity for more panty-shots. It's silly, it's gratuitous, and it kind of brings down the whole show.
And that strikes me as the whole problem: The story isn't really about titillation, but you'd better believe the art is. It's like the writer and the producer are having a tug of war. Yeah yeah, sex sells, and there's something to be said about bombarding you with panty-shots until they become entirely meaningless, but I can't help but think the show would be better if it were handled a little more... maturely? The fact that they're all in middle school makes the whole thing just that much more uncomfortable.
So I see the promise, but I'm pretty torn on the show.
However, I think that for all the positive messges, the show is presented very, very badly. For instance, in the mall: Jinguji and Shiraishi are reflecting on underwear and therefor, by an inexplicit, subtextual extension, on female sexuality in general. They think about how they can't talk to anyone about it, about how their bodies are constantly changing but their hearts can't keep up, particularly in this atmosphere of enforced silence. This is an important, powerful moment, a moment with a lot of drama, as well as the basic thesis of the show, and what's on the screen? The two of them, naked but for thin, pink ribbons covering their nipples and genitals. Keep it classy, fellas.
Of course it goes on and on, with all the crypto panty-shots. On the stairs, hiding behind bushes, when the teacher gets on her bike; any time any one is even vaguely bent at the waist is treated as a free opportunity for more panty-shots. It's silly, it's gratuitous, and it kind of brings down the whole show.
And that strikes me as the whole problem: The story isn't really about titillation, but you'd better believe the art is. It's like the writer and the producer are having a tug of war. Yeah yeah, sex sells, and there's something to be said about bombarding you with panty-shots until they become entirely meaningless, but I can't help but think the show would be better if it were handled a little more... maturely? The fact that they're all in middle school makes the whole thing just that much more uncomfortable.
So I see the promise, but I'm pretty torn on the show.
I have watched the first 4 eps of this anime series. Though the "fan-service" can at times seem a bit out there; any seasoned viewer of anime recent or otherwise could safely note that there have been shows that just use tricky tactics to move the story along. Take Keitaro Urashima from Love Hina for instance... He was the protagonist in a show that at times put the "service shots" on overdrive. But seldom did the service shot in that scene fail to cast him into a situation where he had to prove his steel. Sure at the beginning he had no backbone to speak of, but by the end of the series he was someone that everyone had taken seriously.
Relating that kind of development to Chu-Bra is not that hard a road to walk. While there are scenes that some folks may find VERY risqué; they do tend to put the characters in a position where they must step outside of their fears or comfort zones. Stepping out of a comfort zone allows people or characters to challenge limits and progress toward the self-actualization that too many viewers here missed. The show does have for itself a rather unconventional pivoting point; but at least this show deviates from the normal formula in some true anime failures. The underwear bit was used to allow the lead to educate her friends on an important issue that too many people don't talk about out of fear of embarrassment or fear of awkward responses. I think of the first time I had to use a Japanese style toilet; if I hadn't decided to kill my curiosity and ask someone local, I would have suffered through pain from holding it too long and possible embarrassment from an unexpected mess before getting home.
Relating that kind of development to Chu-Bra is not that hard a road to walk. While there are scenes that some folks may find VERY risqué; they do tend to put the characters in a position where they must step outside of their fears or comfort zones. Stepping out of a comfort zone allows people or characters to challenge limits and progress toward the self-actualization that too many viewers here missed. The show does have for itself a rather unconventional pivoting point; but at least this show deviates from the normal formula in some true anime failures. The underwear bit was used to allow the lead to educate her friends on an important issue that too many people don't talk about out of fear of embarrassment or fear of awkward responses. I think of the first time I had to use a Japanese style toilet; if I hadn't decided to kill my curiosity and ask someone local, I would have suffered through pain from holding it too long and possible embarrassment from an unexpected mess before getting home.
You know what ? When hearing (or rather reading) about this series for the first time, I thought "Again one of those stupid s**t for frustrated teenagers". But your review actually makes me want to try and watch it.
So I'll give it a try. I can't promise I'll go much farther than the third episode, but I'll definitely give my opinion here.
And in relation to the fan-sevice, I don't hate it. Clearly not. The problem is the way it is done. Impossible situations, sexist allusions, incredibly stupid characters... If it is shown differently in Chuu Bra!!, and despite the double exclamation mark in the title, I might be able to enjoy it.
A man can dream...
So I'll give it a try. I can't promise I'll go much farther than the third episode, but I'll definitely give my opinion here.
And in relation to the fan-sevice, I don't hate it. Clearly not. The problem is the way it is done. Impossible situations, sexist allusions, incredibly stupid characters... If it is shown differently in Chuu Bra!!, and despite the double exclamation mark in the title, I might be able to enjoy it.
A man can dream...
my two cents:
Fanservice things- I actually hardly have an issue with, even with it being constantly shoved down my throat. The problem I had with this anime is that... it's really ugly!
Okay that might be a bit of an exaggeration but I was really looking forward to a panty-centric anime. I didn't expect much, I knew from the get-go the art style meant high pitched squealing girls. That's fine, I can tolerate.
Bottom line is that the underwear has hideous colors!! Lime green, and other neon colors that only flatten the curves. They don't look like people wearing underwear naturally at all! I took a peek at the manga, black and white naturally and the art is significantly better but also I'm not distracted by the fact that I DON'T understand why anyone would buy said clothing let alone ooh and ahh over it.
And this is an underwear-centric show so of course I am disappoint!
Fanservice things- I actually hardly have an issue with, even with it being constantly shoved down my throat. The problem I had with this anime is that... it's really ugly!
Okay that might be a bit of an exaggeration but I was really looking forward to a panty-centric anime. I didn't expect much, I knew from the get-go the art style meant high pitched squealing girls. That's fine, I can tolerate.
Bottom line is that the underwear has hideous colors!! Lime green, and other neon colors that only flatten the curves. They don't look like people wearing underwear naturally at all! I took a peek at the manga, black and white naturally and the art is significantly better but also I'm not distracted by the fact that I DON'T understand why anyone would buy said clothing let alone ooh and ahh over it.
And this is an underwear-centric show so of course I am disappoint!
