So while I think what happened sucks, at least he was well represented. That is the most coherent long legal statement I've read from a lawyer.
Now I'm glad I didn't say anything on the legal side of this situation (on the podcast) on the basis that I had no idea what I was talking about- because I was right to think that I had no idea what I was talking about. I think choosing to believe that Handley's lawyer, Mr. Chase, was incompetent, was kind of logical-comfort food for many people; that way we could think "well if only he'd had good representation, this wouldn't have happened, so we don't need to worry about it." Apparently, the situation is worse than we even thought it was.
Meh, law these days. What a mess.
What makes this worst is the fact that his seems to shut down nearly all hentai (and some near porn anime/manga [see Sundome]). I sure as hell would not want to get arrested for some cartoons on my PC. My question is, what the hell are we going to do, or even can we do? It's an uphill battle against most of the population.
Sadly, Sirkin's case is unlike to break any new ground on the obscenity front as I see it. It is very much a matter of timing. I'm not sure where Sirkin's case is in the appeals process, but at the moment the court is certainly leaning right as indicated in some recent cases (particularly the atrocious decision to apply personal free speech standards to corporations). The current court make up would almost certainly uphold the Miller test.
Perhaps one day the Supreme Court's preference for bright line rules will bring about the Miller test's downfall, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
Miller tests aside, 18 USC 1466A, provides a congressional definition for obscenity, and that too would have to be challenged in court.
Even though I'm still of the opinion that anything virtual cannot be counted as harmful to any specific person, I am happy to realize that Handley received the best outcome afforded to him, rather than falling victim to the misunderstanding of a prudish court.
I may not have a J.D., but speaking simply as a sentient, thinking entity, I must question the very nature of the notion of "obscenity" in American constitutional law.
The difference between legal theory and actual practice not withstanding, our system of law is supposed to be based on a few key, specific ideas. Among these, that human beings are inherently endowed with unalienable rights under the natural law, and that the fundamental purpose of the institution of government is to secure and protect such rights. The obvious secondary implication of this concept is that the exercise of one's rights can only be legitimately limited if the act in question poses an immediate and serious threat to the rights of other individuals (Life, Liberty, Property, Pursuit of Happiness, etc.).
For example: Inciting a riot, resulting in massive human injury, property damage, and even possible fatalities, cannot and should not be seriously considered as protected under the right to free speech. Similarly, arguing that private ownership of a thermonuclear weapon is protected by the right to bear arms is absurd since such armaments have little or no practical defensive value -- you would end up obliterating yourself and everyone else around you.
The common thread running through these reasonable restrictions is that any constraint placed upon a particular right must meet the test of preventing immediate and serious harm to the rights of all individuals. I find it difficult to believe that obscenity satisfies this criterion.
What immediate and serious harm to other individuals' rights are obscenity laws protecting people against? Religious sensibilities? Decline of local property values? Stimulation of deviant criminal behavior? I don't see the logic.
Sadly, for our Constitution of the United States, it seems that whenever someone invokes the "It's for the children!" justification, reason gives way to madness, emotion supersedes fact, and absolute democracy extends its contemptuous roots into the hearts of men ... rule of law be damned, the defining traits of a Republic eviscerated.
After looking over 18 USC 1466A, all I can say is that the United States Code is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUSLY LONG THAT IF YOU PRINTED IT OUT AND LAID ALL THE SHEETS DOWN IN A STRAIGHT LINE IT WOULD START FROM MY HOME IN QUEENS, NEW YORK AND REACH ALL THE WAY TO TRENTON, NEW JERSEY.
I have my doubts about the Supreme Court ruling in favor of Max Hardcore, their recent decision to treat corporations the same as human beings with free speech rights in regard to electoral politics, is very disturbing. Hopefully, they'll decide to rule in favor of the 2nd Amendment in McDonald v. Chicago as well as do away with this "Selective Incorporation" nonsense. States and local municipalities shouldn't be able to cherry-pick which portions of the Bill of Rights to respect.
Handley didn't need to be a "martyr", so I'm glad it didn't go that route, no one needs to do serious time for this (least of all on something like this), but what's messed up is that it had to be taken to this level. What of next person in line who gets "caught" with obscene martial in the mail? When or where would it end?
While it is sad, that states and city's seem to be cherry picking to set rulings in play to advance agendas. Now while we don't know the exact content of the material in question, without seeing them, if it's truly as bad as it was made out to be (which i doubt part of the prossicutors job is to make things sound as bad as possible), then he got what he deserved. It's better to stay on the side of caution.
Now someone cited Max Hardcore, IMO this is a case of apples and oranges, there is a huge difference between live consenting adults and "figures that are androgynous, hairless, and clearly childlike, but not clearly children.", I hate censorship, I personally think that the FCC really goes over board on censoring language and nudity on TV, how can what's natural and normal, be a bad thing! Now some will say I have contradicted myself, but no I haven't, children and adults are very different, that fact can not be argued. And if your fapping material of choice falls into the latter category (children), get some help, because your fucked in the head.
Anyway just my 2 cents, but I doubt anyone cares.
>> I'm sure I'll be labeled "prudish" or "ignorant" or "intolerant" > And you can make excuses and try and say it's art, or saying it's not harming anyone because it's just a picture, is not a valid argument. > There are certain lines that should never be crossed, and the harm, corruption, and molestation of children is one of those things. > I hate censorship, I personally think that the FCC really goes over board on censoring language and nudity on TV, how can what's natural and normal, be a bad thing! > (which i doubt part of the prossicutors job is to make things sound as bad as possible) > Now someone cited Max Hardcore, IMO this is a case of apples and oranges, there is a huge difference between live consenting adults and "figures that are androgynous, hairless, and clearly childlike, but not clearly children." > Anyway just my 2 cents,
Okay, so here's what I wanted to post to make me sound all smart and cool.
@thatguyukno:
"I'm sure I'll be labeled 'prudish' or 'ignorant' or 'intolerant'
I don't presume you to be any of these things. You just have beliefs. But, like most humans, our beliefs can be mistaken and ill-informed. At worst, they can be dangerous.
"And you can make excuses and try and say it's art, or saying it's not harming anyone because it's just a picture, is not a valid argument."
Why is it not a valid argument? You cannot simply claim any particular argument to be invalid without explaining your reasoning.
"There are certain lines that should never be crossed, and the harm, corruption, and molestation of children is one of those things."
What does it mean to even "cross a line"? Who decides what the "lines" are? You? Me? The fat guy down at the Burger King? And how do inanimate, non-sentient drawings cross any line at all?
"I hate censorship, I personally think that the FCC really goes over board on censoring language and nudity on TV, how can what's natural and normal, be a bad thing!"
Agreed.
"(which i doubt part of the prossicutors job is to make things sound as bad as possible)"
What!? Are you kidding me? Irrespective of the exact substance of the materials in Handley's possession, are you actually suggesting that making things sound as horrible as can be done is not the bread and butter of a criminal prosecution? Wow.
"Now someone cited Max Hardcore, IMO this is a case of apples and oranges, there is a huge difference between live consenting adults and 'figures that are androgynous, hairless, and clearly childlike, but not clearly children."
Chase's reference to "figures that are androgynous, hairless, and clearly childlike, but not clearly children" is part of his observation on the possible illegality of Yaoi, which was brought up amidst reactions to Handley's plea and sentencing. It is not stated to be the contents of the manga confiscated from Handley. Please read the letter again.
"Anyway just my 2 cents"
I'll take your two cents. Bring me three more and I'll be able to go buy a Bazooka Joe. Thanks.
...the case leaves me confused about what's legal and what's not. Is an anime that is openly distributed in the USA (for example, To Love-Ru, which can be purchased everywhere from Amazon.com to local hobby shops) but has images of bare teenage boobs something that could potentially land people in jail? There's a lot that's unclear in the example of To Love-Ru. I'd be interested in knowing the answers to questions such as these both for practical (ie, so people can protect themselves from these crazy prosecutions) and intellectual reasons:
-Does To Love-Ru, in legal terms, have artistic merit? I think it's funny, cute, good-natured, interesting, plays with anime motifs in a fun way, and has character designs that are both aesthetically meritorious in their own right as well as being insightful interpretations of anime archetypes. However, I think one's enjoyment and appreciation of the series is in part dependent upon an enjoyment and appreciation of anime motifs. Also, the show isn't attempting, through its art, to affect some positive social change or to deeply positively influence anyone through serious social discussion, etc - ie, it's not a Dostoevsky novel. But I assume something doesn't have to be Dostoevsky in order for its artistic merit to protect it under the law. Or does it?
-Is To Love-Ru "prurient" despite the fact that its nudity is comedic and satirical rather than seemingly intended to be sexually arousing? What makes something legally "sexual in nature" - is it the effect it is intended to have on its audience, ie, whether or not it is intended to sexually arouse its audience, and if so, are drawings of boobs by definition intended to be sexually arousing? Or is something "sexual in nature" simply because it depicts specific parts of the human body? If so, what specific parts? Breasts? And if breasts fall into that category, what about bare belly buttons? I'm not asking in order to be funny. Someone is going to jail because of drawings and I would really like to know the specific grounds on which it is possible be jailed. Prurience vs. non-prurience truly seems unclear to me.
-Is To Love-Ru "obscene" (which is different than simply "prurient" or "sexual in nature") because it occasionally makes visible the breasts of characters that are presumably under 18 (the characters are in high school), or is it non-obscene because none of the characters are having sex or doing anything sexually explicit? So would its obscenity or non-obscenity be completely dependent upon whether a jury believes that a drawing of teenage breasts is, even in absence of anything sexually explicit, obscene?
-Is the scene in To Love-Ru that functions as a non-explicit spoof or playful genre interpretation of tentacle porn obscene because it is suggestive of tentacle porn (which might be considered obscene) even though there's nothing explicit (there's no nudity or penetration in the scene) about To Love-Ru's playful interpretation of it?
-How does the law work in regards to something that is being legally and openly sold? Based on the Max Hardcore case, Section 23 people could theoretically put in jail if a jury decides that To Love-Ru is obscene. Does the government have to give them some kind of cease-and-desist warning beforehand? It seems so bizarre that the first step in an obscenity case (for example the Max Hardcore case) is criminal prosecution rather than some sort of warning around "the federal government thinks this might be obscene and is seriously considering prosecution if you don't desist.") But it doesn't sound as if that's something that is part of the process.
-And how about this: can some random person be prosecuted for something like To Love-Ru for "receipt" of it even as it continues to be legally domestically distributed both on and off the internet? Based on these cases, it sounds as if they could, if someone lives in a particular community that wants to criminalize it, since there's no national standard.
-And lastly, am I wrong to think this is all very vague?
I'll add: I very much wish Handley well, and I hope he finds a way to get through this and make his life livable despite what is being done to him. He is the only victim here.

FMA: The Sacred Star of Milos
A look at: Blue Exorcist DVD Vol.3
Vivid Covers
Kinda Coicent, Five Numbers
Devil Survivor 2
Kinda Dragon Ball Z Kai Part 7
Cherry Tree High Comedy Club
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention
Doesn't Recommend: Shocking Loud Voice
Black Butler II and OVAs
Black Butler Season 1
Okami-san
Silent Hill Downpour
A look at: Ys: The Oath in Felghana PC
Ultimate Marvel Versus Capcom 3
May'n - Heat
Jiro Dreams of Sushi
.hack//Quantum
Sekirei Pure Engagement
Final Fantasy XIII-2
































3:00 PM on 03.03.2010
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