Japanator AM is go!

Will give this a listen sometime tommrow.

Is there a way to listen to this on iTunes?

I think it's safe to say I won that argument. :3

I love that we can spend that long bitching at random, still publish it, and people still like us. For some reason. :D

I...I'm sad. I was looking forward to this week, now that I finally caught a couple episodes of Durarara. Here's hoping next week's recording will turn out a-okay.

Also, Gurren Lagann: so manly that when it's discussed, the discussion turns into a no-holds barred brawl for truth and justice! Yeah!

@tron I think they've said they have to have a few more 'casts under their belt before they can officially be added.


Listening right now. It's kind of like being a quiet member of a rowdy group at a bar, watching all the chaos unfold. It's messy, but you're going to remember it for a while afterward.

Even though I enjoy "Gurren Lagann" and have fundamental disagreements with Jon about super-robot shows (I love them, he thinks they should burn in a fire), Jon definitely defended his point of view much better than Jake did. "Gurren Lagann" does often use cliches. I enjoy how those cliches are used, but it's impossible to deny that they're there.

Also, the podcast ending music? WIN

Okay, now that I've heard the 'cast, I think I get the jist.

To me, Gurren Lagann (a show that almost everybody likes) occupies a similar conceptual space as Buso Renkin (a show that I don't think anyone but me has seen). When you watch these series, there's no attempt to avoid cliches. But I think the frequency of cliches reaches a sort of "critical mass" where you can no longer just write it off as "blah, it's cliche" - when there are that many and the staff is that open about them being cliche, it's obvious that the series is using them as a sort of commentary on something else. In Buso Renkin's case, I think the series was, in large part, a big satire of shounen manga. In the case of Gurren Lagann, I think it was a commentary on hyperbole in stories. There's no show I can think of that tosses as much wildly trumped-up hyperbole at the viewer as GL does. Any viewer can see the ridiculous excess of their 40,000 drills, or braining someone over the head with a -galaxy-. In your mind, you think, "this is some ridiculous shit," but at what point exactly did the show state it was playing by conventional world rules? It breaks that barrier. But, oddly enough, it's sticks very closely to traditional storytelling precepts (escalation of scale, three-act structure, coming-of-age, etc). The foundation is solid, but the shape of the building is whacked out. But I think that's where Gurren Lagann succeeds - it has to go outside of the realm of conventional thinking - even brushing against the stupidity gradient at points - to say what it wants to say. Ultimately, I think what it wants to say is surprisingly simple - that we are better people for striving forward for something, whether or not we reach what we're striving for. Lots of stories have probably had that theam. But Gurren Lagann is the one lots of people remember, because it was so full of bombast and machismo.

I'm not in the "Gainax can do no wrong" camp - I have a strong dislike for Evangelion and regard FLCL as their most-excellent "apology" for it. But though I was skeptical about Gurren Lagann, I do think the show knows what it's doing, and represents the "good" side of Gainax, rather than their dark side. Okay, this encroached into tl;dr-ism, but at least I got that off my chest. Phew!

effing HILARIOUS, totally loved it.

personally,im on the pro Gurren Lagann camp.
yes,it IS cliché,yes the story wasent the most thought through or the characters the most developed,and usually,id just dump it and go after something else.
but for me, this show was ALL about(this is gonna be so corny) spirit.
hope. its the complete opposite of Evangelion, while Evangelion deconstructed the mech genre in general, and showed an intresting twist on fucking HORRIBLE it'd be to actually live in those kinda worlds, Gurren Lagann reconstructed what was lost. its a ressurection of the unstoppable heroes, its a celebration of the clichés that drove an entire genre for years and it comes very close at many points of mimicking GaoGaiGar,wich was made in '98 i think.
so YES,it is NOT the ''next evagelion'' its the ANTI evangelion.
and for that, alot of ppl will hate it, others will love it.
personally i find it incredible.

and speaking of Gurren Lagann, the second movie hits DVD today.

coincedence?

THANK YOU ittoujuu, you just nailed a lot of what I wanted to say but gave up on ever explaining coherently.

Thanky Japanator for the new podcast. (now Find a good time to play it.)

Everything about Gurren Lagann WAS cliche. That was the idea, since it was the anti-Evangelion. Evangelion turned the whole mecha genre on its head, and Gurren Lagann did the same in the wake of Evangelion imitators.

Hmm, maybe that's not quite right.


It was like...a love letter to all mecha anime as a whole.

At the beginning, before Kamina dies, you have him spouting his hot-blooded inspirational speeches every five minutes - it was like the old super robot shows where that stuff was the norm. Then, after episode 8, it sort of moves closer into the whole real-robot deal, but Simon and the rest of them still keep that gung-ho attitude. It's a period of transition.

By the time it reaches the time skip, Gurren Lagann is a mirroring the mood of Evangelion and the shows that came out in its wake - darker, and the cheery attitude that served everyone so well before is pulled out from under them and everything goes to hell.

Gurren Lagann follows the path that mecha anime has taken, and by the final arc, it starts drilling its own hole for others to follow. It goes so over the top and becomes impossibly ridiculous and awesome - it's making itself a hard act to follow, but the theme of the series does its best to hammer home the point that no matter how hard it might be, it's definitely possible.

At the end, Simon says something along the lines of "There are others more appropriate to pass through the hole I've dug." That's the real point of the series - it's supposed to be cliche, because it's going through the holes and paths that have been dug out by other series.

At the end, when it stops being cliche and just throws off all semblance of reason at all, well that's the new hole. Evangelion dug its own, and every mecha show since has at least in some way responded to that. Gurren Lagann is doing just the same.

I'm with Tron, it would be a lot easier for me to listen if I could get these through iTunes.

I did not favor Gurren Lagann an after the 8th episode it was hard to watch until the last 2-3 episode. In between it was utter shit =_= A great Anime should cover all there episode with awesomeness not just 10.

I also think that every one is creating this fictional depth that Gurenn Lagann has. they replace Kamina with

...Moe(Nia) which ruin the show for me.

I'm completely siding with Jon here. Gurren Lagann was relatively enjoyable, but let's shut the hell up about it being a masterpiece.
I don't mind if you want to touch your privates whilst watching the show over and over, just do it discreetly without turning into a Jehova's witness.

@Irothin: OMG, Japanator readers are so smart! I heart you all!

@Mandril: I've never heard anyone effectively refute the arguments about what does make Gurren Laggan special though- it's usually "I don't see it that way, therefore you're wrong."

Not that you aren't entitled to your opinion on it of course, I just find the arguments for why it's good (as pointed out above by others) to be far more compelling to me than the arguments for why it allegedly isn't. Others above have pointed out very well why the "it's cliche!" criticism fails, and that tends to be the main one.

The show is purposefully filled with cliches as we've established. The characters and storyline have been conceptualised on a napkin using some ketchup and mayonaise. However, purposefully so. I applaud the series for that, and for creating a relatively enjoyable anime out of such garbage by losing control and going insane with the super-robot concept. However, this does not elevate the series to a holy status to me. It was quite allright, but it probably wouldn't reach my top 10 favorite robot shows by a long shot.

Anime series with a concept behind them are plentiful. Just because this one is based on a simplified shounen mould, that doesn't convince me of its value.

While Gurren Lagann may be better entertainment, I think Evangelion's approach is much more appropriate to convey an artistic message.

So, in summation, I can agree with most of the arguments. I just disagree on the conclusion following these arguments.

I think Gurren Lagann was a decent anime, and I enjoyed it.
But when I constantly hear everyone proclaim how Gurren Lagann is one of the best series ever made, I object to that.

Gurren Lagann is one of my favorite anime and it's probably in my top ten. While I adore the show I realize what makes it so great for me may seem stupid to others. I agree that the show is a giant cliché but that's what makes it so great to me. Also any show that has the balls to kill off a main character is fantastic in my book even if it's just a plot device to drive the other character to do something.

Tim. Jake. Cage match.

I'll wait for the Gurren Lagann article to post my opinion, which isn't negative. But can anyone tell me the name of the song the play at the end of this podcast?

@Strey
You mean the Gurren Lagann rap? The rap itself is called "Rappu ha Kan no Tamashii Da! Onore wo Shinjite Ten wo Yubisasu Dotou no Otoko. Kamina-sama no Teema wo Mimi no ana Kappojitte Yo~ku Kikiyagare!!" but I'm pretty sure the version played at the end is "Libera me from hell."

@Ben Huber: Thanks, the "Libera me" from hell version is way more epic than the original. Though there are times in it that I wished they would downplay the opera singing for the hook (Row, Row, Fight the power) and vice versa.

downloading I love you guys :3 my favorite podcast

oh my goodness I love hearing this it was so entertaining you guys are the best more of this? :3

As for Gurren Lagann I enjoyed it because it was insane and just crazy. I heard that people who's watched this has changed their lives for the better watching it. I wouldn't call it the best anime I've watched.