FMA: The Sacred Star of Milos
A look at: Blue Exorcist DVD Vol.3
Vivid Covers
Kinda Coicent, Five Numbers
Devil Survivor 2
Kinda Dragon Ball Z Kai Part 7
Cherry Tree High Comedy Club
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention
Doesn't Recommend: Shocking Loud Voice
Black Butler II and OVAs
Black Butler Season 1
Okami-san
Silent Hill Downpour
A look at: Ys: The Oath in Felghana PC
Ultimate Marvel Versus Capcom 3
May'n - Heat
Jiro Dreams of Sushi
.hack//Quantum
Sekirei Pure Engagement
Final Fantasy XIII-2
FMA: The Sacred Star of Milos
10:30 AM on 07.22.2010
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its sad to see Onemanga leave, it was were i first discovered a naruto manga, and i still read it. i just hope (somehow) they can become like crunchyroll and license manga legally. (if its possible i guess)
I remember when I first discovered Onemanga about 5 years ago. It really was amazing at the time, being able to read manga that wasn't available anywhere else. It'll be a shame that they'll be removing the manga that isn't licensed here as well (like Hajime no Ippo, seriously, are they ever going to license that?). I have a feeling a lot of the manga I read on that site won't ever be licensed so it essentially means I'll never finish them.
Ah well, I hope this means we'll see the introduction of an efficient and legal scanlation system. Would definitely help in legitimizing reading manga online anyways. I look forward to seeing what Square can offer us.
Ah well, I hope this means we'll see the introduction of an efficient and legal scanlation system. Would definitely help in legitimizing reading manga online anyways. I look forward to seeing what Square can offer us.
I'm all for legal means of getting manga, but I'm still irked that this recent crackdown is preventing me from reading non-licensed manga like The World God Only Knows.
Ideally, I'd like to see a system similar to Crunchyroll where we pay for a subscription to see the latest scanlations.
Ideally, I'd like to see a system similar to Crunchyroll where we pay for a subscription to see the latest scanlations.
Onemanga is a wonderful site, it saddens me that they're closing down. They do deserve a round of applause though, for respecting the Manga industry. I hope this gives them a chance to follow Square's footsteps, work with some publishers and perhaps come back with official digital versions to share via subscriptions. I would sign up on day one with them!
North America and France? The hell? Weird combination. They just need to flick a switch for us in the UK since it's already translated. I don't like reading manga on a screen anyways. GIMME MORE PROPER RELEASES BEEYOTCH!
In my opinion, I think manga loses something when read from a screen. It just feels better reading from paper.
I'm not sure if I support increased power to intellectual rights. I think that they have enough power as is already, and I believe that information should be shared among humanity for the benefit of humanity as a whole. It's not so much that I'm worried that aggregate sites will shut down, but rather the way this trend is moving us. There are some dark implications if digital information loses it's 0-cost replication and is replaced by corporations exploiting people by insisting on protecting legal fictions.
Just how exactly, is protecting intellectual rights a good thing for the greater good? While I agree that giving monopolies as a way of adding incentive to developing new ideas, ultimately, it's purpose is to benefit the most people through the idea's introduction. If we give too much power to intellectual rights however, we defeat the purpose of intellectual rights all together. I seriously doubt that if we increase the restrictions on intellectual rights, more ideas or better ideas will come out, because it's already profitable as is to generate them as opposed to not. The only benefit now to stretching the power of intellectual rights is to service those interested in generating more profit.
And this kind of profit pursuit usually comes at the expense of everyone else.
Just how exactly, is protecting intellectual rights a good thing for the greater good? While I agree that giving monopolies as a way of adding incentive to developing new ideas, ultimately, it's purpose is to benefit the most people through the idea's introduction. If we give too much power to intellectual rights however, we defeat the purpose of intellectual rights all together. I seriously doubt that if we increase the restrictions on intellectual rights, more ideas or better ideas will come out, because it's already profitable as is to generate them as opposed to not. The only benefit now to stretching the power of intellectual rights is to service those interested in generating more profit.
And this kind of profit pursuit usually comes at the expense of everyone else.
@fission2 Its a bit early to say that anyone has established a monopoly on digital manga. Its seems to me there are plenty of companies who are aware of and preparing themselves for digital manga distribution. So long as there is a good healthy amount of competition I don't think this is a bad thing.
Well, looks like I can give up on reading manga now. Good thing too, I used to spend tons of time reading it, now I'm free to do other stuff... whatever that might be.
Shutting down the readers will just slow the flow of manga being transfered on the web. This is amusing as they cant stop it.
It would be better for them to release the manga in subsiquent countires in the same format as japan, with the mags, even if a week late it would still work, for example they are posted to your house you subscribe boom, magic translated good quality every1 is happy.
It would be better for them to release the manga in subsiquent countires in the same format as japan, with the mags, even if a week late it would still work, for example they are posted to your house you subscribe boom, magic translated good quality every1 is happy.
I remember when I first found One Manga six years ago T_T It was the greatest thing I'd found since.... my birth :D
I'm interested in what the online manga site will be like. :P
I'm interested in what the online manga site will be like. :P
I am saddened to see that people believe OneManga scanlates or would be able to deliver scanlations for profit.
First off, scanlators are not affiliated with OneManga. Scanlators generally release on their own sites or via IRC and OneManga downloads and hosts these scanlations, often without permission. Meji, it is extremely unlikely that OneManga would license series when they have no scanlation power to speak of.
Irothtin, scanlators generally work for little or no profit. I don't believe OneManga has the right to be distributing it for profit.
CrunchyRoll was originally a subbing group, not an online streaming site. They had the resources to translate and edit anime releases; OneManga and other online readers do not. Go support your local scanlator and suggest that they find a way to become legitimate; OneManga is a lost cause at this point.
First off, scanlators are not affiliated with OneManga. Scanlators generally release on their own sites or via IRC and OneManga downloads and hosts these scanlations, often without permission. Meji, it is extremely unlikely that OneManga would license series when they have no scanlation power to speak of.
Irothtin, scanlators generally work for little or no profit. I don't believe OneManga has the right to be distributing it for profit.
CrunchyRoll was originally a subbing group, not an online streaming site. They had the resources to translate and edit anime releases; OneManga and other online readers do not. Go support your local scanlator and suggest that they find a way to become legitimate; OneManga is a lost cause at this point.
unfortunetly in all my years of being a huge nerd, i have never seen a corporate alternative to the "pirate" system work. the issue isn't payment, companies just arent as good at delivering their product as the people who "steal" it are. the people who run onemanga were interested in creating a quality site to read on, square enix will be interested in maximizing profit.
@Lifesong and Brad
The reason why I used the term monopoly is because that's exactly what a copyright is, it gives someone or some entity exclusive rights to produce a product, such as a certain pharmaceutical drug or a title to a book. No one else may produce it without penalty, and the purpose of that is to encourage people to continue to produce these goods, knowing that upon fruition, their work will generate them their livelihood.
With the advent of the digital age, ideas, prints and other forms of media can be produced and distributed at a cost so small, it costs virtually nothing (same overhead cost, but 0 variable cost). The primary purpose of the internet was to allow the free exchange of ideas and information so that everyone can benefit from the collective knowledge of our species, much the same as how copyrights and other forms of intellectual property were aimed to provide protection to creators, but ultimately benefit society with the creation of those ideas (a vaccine for swine-flu, lets say). I fully support protecting the livelihood of creators, because they in turn enrich my life with the fruits of their labour, but the issue I have is that these 'rights' being pushed for are exploiting the system.
How is it exploiting the system exactly? Right holders are privatizing that which used to be public domain, and can be compared to being as absurd as purchasing water from the bottle (and you're not paying for the convenience).
Since it costs nothing to distribute online (or close to nothing), I would agree that recouping the sunk costs of development, the variable cost of a copy, and adding a reasonable amount of profit is an absolutely genuine business model. What I don't agree with, is how they're selling 'digital media' at much higher than the cost of production and what I'd consider reasonable profit combined, all so to better exploit the consumer, not create a better product. What related companies are clamouring to do now is produce more titles that don't sell well, get poor results, and justify the increased prices for the good products. I don't support pharmaceuticals doing that and I don't support digital media producers doing so either.
The reason why I don't support this is because they're setting us all up for a fall, because their business model is one based on a leaky-bucket. If we continue to support them blindly in giving them more rights, we are actively building an industry up where it is unsustainable in concept.
Think about it: the current industry is trying to operate in the physical world, trying to adopt the same principles and using that logic over in the digital one. The free market is based on the idea that favours the producers who can produce the greatest quantity and sell it for the cheapest, or find the balance between price and quantity. Scanlated manga is evidence that people can produce these goods at 0 cost, yet the industry is insistent that they should be able to sell it at a higher cost. They are actively trying to fix the market into buying something much higher than the intrinsic value of the commodity itself. Price is determined by the people, so why are we blindly accepting the price that the producer says it's worth?
The conclusion that I've come up with is that by granting more privileges to producers, we are actively allowing them to fix the cost of goods artificially, and this model is unsustainable. The evidence for this claim is that digital reproduction is near 0 cost and the only real reason to pay for something would be to recoup the cost of production, cover the variable cost of distribution, and generate a reasonable amount of profit.
I argue that if people want niche titles, they should do what niches have always traditionally done - pay more for their customized good, and a lower price for more mainstream goods, not enforce that price uniformly on all titles, as this corrupts the market system. The same logic should be applied to the physical world if they're serious about pursuing a digital model: People should pay more for a tangible product than they should for a virtual one. The biggest cost of production for a traditional print manga beyond the printing process is the acquisition of the license to produce the product itself. But by acquiring the license to produce something, they've basically eliminated all the sunk cost of producing the product itself (they don't need to pay for the inception of the product, just the translation), which as we know, can be done for as little as FREE.
Now we bring this back to the digital platform, where distribution cost is 0. All a distributor has to do is pay for a license, hire 3 people to translate and clean it, then sell it. Over a consumer base, this should amount to a very low end-user price, but it doesn't. This is because they're actively fixing the price the product, to generate the most profit, at the sacrifice of better products, the service to the most individuals, and it is exactly because of this kind of behaviour that causes market economies to fail.
The reason why I used the term monopoly is because that's exactly what a copyright is, it gives someone or some entity exclusive rights to produce a product, such as a certain pharmaceutical drug or a title to a book. No one else may produce it without penalty, and the purpose of that is to encourage people to continue to produce these goods, knowing that upon fruition, their work will generate them their livelihood.
With the advent of the digital age, ideas, prints and other forms of media can be produced and distributed at a cost so small, it costs virtually nothing (same overhead cost, but 0 variable cost). The primary purpose of the internet was to allow the free exchange of ideas and information so that everyone can benefit from the collective knowledge of our species, much the same as how copyrights and other forms of intellectual property were aimed to provide protection to creators, but ultimately benefit society with the creation of those ideas (a vaccine for swine-flu, lets say). I fully support protecting the livelihood of creators, because they in turn enrich my life with the fruits of their labour, but the issue I have is that these 'rights' being pushed for are exploiting the system.
How is it exploiting the system exactly? Right holders are privatizing that which used to be public domain, and can be compared to being as absurd as purchasing water from the bottle (and you're not paying for the convenience).
Since it costs nothing to distribute online (or close to nothing), I would agree that recouping the sunk costs of development, the variable cost of a copy, and adding a reasonable amount of profit is an absolutely genuine business model. What I don't agree with, is how they're selling 'digital media' at much higher than the cost of production and what I'd consider reasonable profit combined, all so to better exploit the consumer, not create a better product. What related companies are clamouring to do now is produce more titles that don't sell well, get poor results, and justify the increased prices for the good products. I don't support pharmaceuticals doing that and I don't support digital media producers doing so either.
The reason why I don't support this is because they're setting us all up for a fall, because their business model is one based on a leaky-bucket. If we continue to support them blindly in giving them more rights, we are actively building an industry up where it is unsustainable in concept.
Think about it: the current industry is trying to operate in the physical world, trying to adopt the same principles and using that logic over in the digital one. The free market is based on the idea that favours the producers who can produce the greatest quantity and sell it for the cheapest, or find the balance between price and quantity. Scanlated manga is evidence that people can produce these goods at 0 cost, yet the industry is insistent that they should be able to sell it at a higher cost. They are actively trying to fix the market into buying something much higher than the intrinsic value of the commodity itself. Price is determined by the people, so why are we blindly accepting the price that the producer says it's worth?
The conclusion that I've come up with is that by granting more privileges to producers, we are actively allowing them to fix the cost of goods artificially, and this model is unsustainable. The evidence for this claim is that digital reproduction is near 0 cost and the only real reason to pay for something would be to recoup the cost of production, cover the variable cost of distribution, and generate a reasonable amount of profit.
I argue that if people want niche titles, they should do what niches have always traditionally done - pay more for their customized good, and a lower price for more mainstream goods, not enforce that price uniformly on all titles, as this corrupts the market system. The same logic should be applied to the physical world if they're serious about pursuing a digital model: People should pay more for a tangible product than they should for a virtual one. The biggest cost of production for a traditional print manga beyond the printing process is the acquisition of the license to produce the product itself. But by acquiring the license to produce something, they've basically eliminated all the sunk cost of producing the product itself (they don't need to pay for the inception of the product, just the translation), which as we know, can be done for as little as FREE.
Now we bring this back to the digital platform, where distribution cost is 0. All a distributor has to do is pay for a license, hire 3 people to translate and clean it, then sell it. Over a consumer base, this should amount to a very low end-user price, but it doesn't. This is because they're actively fixing the price the product, to generate the most profit, at the sacrifice of better products, the service to the most individuals, and it is exactly because of this kind of behaviour that causes market economies to fail.
wow this kinda sucks. There are a bunch of titles that I like to read that will never get licensed here. I bought Negima only because I had read it there first.
Im sorry it would have to be as good if not better than OneManga and be between $5 - $10 for me to consider it. Another idea would be to allow members to buy the entire volume of a series and then allow it to be down loaded after you pay for it and keep the file on your computer. Also make it so the file can only be viewed with a special viewer. Only reason I say this is because if you do manage to go with what Square Enix is proposing, what happens if their idea tanks and they decide its not worth it then close the site down? Then you dont even get to keep what you spent your money on.
Another issue I fear will crop up is more than likely it will only house whats considered to be overtly popular amongst certain groups. As some of you know a lot of the manga will never be licensed by them if they dont consider it a money maker and thus we will never get to read or finish some of the manga we love. Unless you learn Japanese and import or find a Japanese book store in your area. Which could be tough for many of us.
Im not opposed to digital distribution but with corporate suites dictating what is licensed based on popularity and whats not I dont think it will turn out as amazing as OneManga was. It also depends, there are some things I like or liked when I was younger that are/were popular so thats understandable but sometimes I do bump into manga no one has heard of or dont care for or their is only a small following for. Just because something isnt as popular as Naruto or Bleach doesnt mean it shouldnt be licensed.
Anyway its sad to hear such a great place go. Again I dont mind paying, I just hope Square Enix doesn't fuck this up. (Of course being negative as I am I dont have any faith in them making this amazing in anyway so I guess its a lost cause.) Gonna have to go back to searching throughout the internet.
Another issue I fear will crop up is more than likely it will only house whats considered to be overtly popular amongst certain groups. As some of you know a lot of the manga will never be licensed by them if they dont consider it a money maker and thus we will never get to read or finish some of the manga we love. Unless you learn Japanese and import or find a Japanese book store in your area. Which could be tough for many of us.
Im not opposed to digital distribution but with corporate suites dictating what is licensed based on popularity and whats not I dont think it will turn out as amazing as OneManga was. It also depends, there are some things I like or liked when I was younger that are/were popular so thats understandable but sometimes I do bump into manga no one has heard of or dont care for or their is only a small following for. Just because something isnt as popular as Naruto or Bleach doesnt mean it shouldnt be licensed.
Anyway its sad to hear such a great place go. Again I dont mind paying, I just hope Square Enix doesn't fuck this up. (Of course being negative as I am I dont have any faith in them making this amazing in anyway so I guess its a lost cause.) Gonna have to go back to searching throughout the internet.
Sounds to me like they are going to fuck up and purely focus on what they consider popular enough to make money, and first chapter for free? They better not be staggering the releases because that is the exactly the reason why people don't buy localised Manga in the US and the UK now.
The biggest draw to sites like OneManga are the up to date releases of new chapters which constantly brings people back to the site, from there people being reading more and more mangas. They need more than FMA, Soul Eater and the things they think are popular to get people to subscribe to this.
The biggest draw to sites like OneManga are the up to date releases of new chapters which constantly brings people back to the site, from there people being reading more and more mangas. They need more than FMA, Soul Eater and the things they think are popular to get people to subscribe to this.
@fission2 I think I understand where you are coming from and I share some of your concern about the effects of this recent crusade against aggregation sites on future of the industry in the long term as they are in effect taking away a big resources for new manga readers. However I think if you want to make a valid argument you need to use sources and point out who is holding this monopoly that you claim. As I see it any official digital manga has had a practically none existent presence up until now. And are still in very early stages.
On another note I am of the opinion that absolutely nothing is free. Including the time given up in order to scan, translate and distribute manga. The lack of a monetary cost is the not the same as something being created out of nothing. That people would expect to be compensated for their work is normal. To put manga and anime on the same level as charity for the betterment of mankind is wrong in my opinion as there are people who depend on this model of rights to support there livelihoods.
Before creating a scene about how things are handled at the copyrights level of the industry the entire foundation would need to change. Which is in part why I find things such as Touhou project and the things fans are allowed to do legally with the franchise so interesting.
Its important to remember that while manga and anime is little more then a Hobby for you and I at its roots the system of distribution is one based off a means for profit. For this model of business to be challenged is something that can only be realistically considered by creators.
On another note I am of the opinion that absolutely nothing is free. Including the time given up in order to scan, translate and distribute manga. The lack of a monetary cost is the not the same as something being created out of nothing. That people would expect to be compensated for their work is normal. To put manga and anime on the same level as charity for the betterment of mankind is wrong in my opinion as there are people who depend on this model of rights to support there livelihoods.
Before creating a scene about how things are handled at the copyrights level of the industry the entire foundation would need to change. Which is in part why I find things such as Touhou project and the things fans are allowed to do legally with the franchise so interesting.
Its important to remember that while manga and anime is little more then a Hobby for you and I at its roots the system of distribution is one based off a means for profit. For this model of business to be challenged is something that can only be realistically considered by creators.
@Lifesong
I've read your comment that nothing is free, and while I agree with that, my point is that on a digital playground the costs are infinitesimal when you compare it to the amount of reach that it has, because digital distribution has 0 (or a cost close to) variable cost. My point is that the sunk cost spread out over the number of copies that can be made adds up to being very small, which is what the end consumer should be paying for (+ a reasonable amount of profit for the firms of course).
The issue I have isn't so much paying for a product, as it is paying for it unfairly. Copyrights, are in nature, exclusive rights to a product, which means that it is a monopoly. Because it's a monopoly, it is not priced at it's intrinsic value, and thus the price is always fixed.
As for who is holding this monopoly, anyone that is holding a license or right to any title is a monopoly holder. The evidence is in plain sight, just disguised. (i.e. No one else can produce say, Pokemon, leaving 4kids a monopoly on this product) The manga market is run by a discrete bunch of oligopolistic firms that don't value their products at their true value. This in turn makes them inefficient, make bad decisions, because that's what happens when you have a monopoly (like the East India Company of Britain).
But say that there are plenty of competitors out there, each holding their own monopolies. Doesn't it become a free market? The answer is no, because the companies in charge realize that it's more profitable for everyone to raise the prices and fix the market price, much like what OPEC does for oil.
The piracy that these media firms are complaining about is actually the black-market for goods, which is representative of the true value of a commodity, like how Prohibition sold liquor and in Cuba, farmers sell potatoes. You see, when stuff gets loaded onto the net, it is the closest thing that we have to a true free market. Things are produced, and sold at their intrinsic values, but because intellectual rights stipulate a monopoly in it's nature, the firms that hold them exploit those rights and artificially fix the price of their goods and this is what I fear, and am against.
I've read your comment that nothing is free, and while I agree with that, my point is that on a digital playground the costs are infinitesimal when you compare it to the amount of reach that it has, because digital distribution has 0 (or a cost close to) variable cost. My point is that the sunk cost spread out over the number of copies that can be made adds up to being very small, which is what the end consumer should be paying for (+ a reasonable amount of profit for the firms of course).
The issue I have isn't so much paying for a product, as it is paying for it unfairly. Copyrights, are in nature, exclusive rights to a product, which means that it is a monopoly. Because it's a monopoly, it is not priced at it's intrinsic value, and thus the price is always fixed.
As for who is holding this monopoly, anyone that is holding a license or right to any title is a monopoly holder. The evidence is in plain sight, just disguised. (i.e. No one else can produce say, Pokemon, leaving 4kids a monopoly on this product) The manga market is run by a discrete bunch of oligopolistic firms that don't value their products at their true value. This in turn makes them inefficient, make bad decisions, because that's what happens when you have a monopoly (like the East India Company of Britain).
But say that there are plenty of competitors out there, each holding their own monopolies. Doesn't it become a free market? The answer is no, because the companies in charge realize that it's more profitable for everyone to raise the prices and fix the market price, much like what OPEC does for oil.
The piracy that these media firms are complaining about is actually the black-market for goods, which is representative of the true value of a commodity, like how Prohibition sold liquor and in Cuba, farmers sell potatoes. You see, when stuff gets loaded onto the net, it is the closest thing that we have to a true free market. Things are produced, and sold at their intrinsic values, but because intellectual rights stipulate a monopoly in it's nature, the firms that hold them exploit those rights and artificially fix the price of their goods and this is what I fear, and am against.
For arguments sake though, you are correct, in that this is a hobby and thus I can allow certain concessions about the expensive nature.
I am however concerned about the future of digital media distribution and its effect on the internet, because distribution is the enforcement of the monopoly, and I'm afraid that ideas soon will become prey to excessive enforcement of ownership as well, which simply shouldn't be. Ideas should be shared freely for the benefit of everyone, I fear a 'brain drain', much like how GM purposely bought out patents that would weaken their market position, despite improved efficiency for consumers.
I am however concerned about the future of digital media distribution and its effect on the internet, because distribution is the enforcement of the monopoly, and I'm afraid that ideas soon will become prey to excessive enforcement of ownership as well, which simply shouldn't be. Ideas should be shared freely for the benefit of everyone, I fear a 'brain drain', much like how GM purposely bought out patents that would weaken their market position, despite improved efficiency for consumers.
What saddens me about this is not that I can't get manga for nothing anymore, but that I will be unable to access all of those little niche titles that were published years ago, and have no hopes for official translation. The titles that aren't really all that popular, that have maybe 20 chapters or so, and are just good reads on a weekend afternoon or something. I won't be able to read those ever again. If I was into the big'uns like Naruto or something I wouldn't have a problem, because I can actually go and buy that. But the lil ones, not so much.
Awesome...wait no i don't live in the USA, so lame for me. All it will do is drive the scanlaters back to IRC's and the darker parts for the net...well done.
The thing is onemagna going people will just go to mangafox or the like, I know I buy almost all of my manga, the only stuff I don't buy is the stuff I can't due to it not being out due to licensing. So that is the big loss for me stuff that will never come out here in the UK.
Lets see if this works, but still love my real books I just use online sites for the latest and to find new manga to read and then buy.
The thing is onemagna going people will just go to mangafox or the like, I know I buy almost all of my manga, the only stuff I don't buy is the stuff I can't due to it not being out due to licensing. So that is the big loss for me stuff that will never come out here in the UK.
Lets see if this works, but still love my real books I just use online sites for the latest and to find new manga to read and then buy.
@fission2 What makes a free market is allowing things to follow the value of supply and demand without government regulation. There is a major flaw in your analogy in that once a digital product is produced there is an unlimited supply of said product and so the only value it can be assigned is an artificial one. Ultimately I think this equates to great opportunity for creators to follow a model along the lines of what Zun has done with Touhou.
At the same time I think its important to allow companies to "monopolize" as you put it intellectual properties that where created for the sake of profit. I do share some concern in what this could mean for internet control by the government in what is an issue that should be settled between distributors and consumers.(or in this digital age ideally directly between creators and consumers) But I do not see the model of business used for distribution being something that should be blamed for causing this concern.
Your example of GM is an interesting one. It should be pointed out that GM's business model failed them completely. Without this ridiculous government buyout deal GM would be no more. Should the US government decide they are needed to console the market for digital media by taking ownership such as they have with GM.(or media period) You will hear me singing along to your tune pretty quickly. But as things stand now we have not lost all our liberties to Washington.
(and there I go making my own political views much more obvious then I would have liked)
At the same time I think its important to allow companies to "monopolize" as you put it intellectual properties that where created for the sake of profit. I do share some concern in what this could mean for internet control by the government in what is an issue that should be settled between distributors and consumers.(or in this digital age ideally directly between creators and consumers) But I do not see the model of business used for distribution being something that should be blamed for causing this concern.
Your example of GM is an interesting one. It should be pointed out that GM's business model failed them completely. Without this ridiculous government buyout deal GM would be no more. Should the US government decide they are needed to console the market for digital media by taking ownership such as they have with GM.(or media period) You will hear me singing along to your tune pretty quickly. But as things stand now we have not lost all our liberties to Washington.
(and there I go making my own political views much more obvious then I would have liked)
When are they moving to digital? That's all I want to know, no other way to read manga on my kindle other than scanlations at the moment...
As dark pointed out, they have crushed all free online reading sites. With next to no back up.
If they had instituted sites with all items ready to be read for subscription, plus an extra paying feature for previous volumes, then crushed everything.
It would be like "right your in the wrong you filthy pirates, oh and subscribe for the real thing"
And dont americans get an adaption of shounen jump released by viz? yea its mothly instead of weekly, but such as england we have next to nothing. Best i can get is online or shelling out for a volume if the shop has it in the tiny shelf that only certian book shops have, joy.
If they had instituted sites with all items ready to be read for subscription, plus an extra paying feature for previous volumes, then crushed everything.
It would be like "right your in the wrong you filthy pirates, oh and subscribe for the real thing"
And dont americans get an adaption of shounen jump released by viz? yea its mothly instead of weekly, but such as england we have next to nothing. Best i can get is online or shelling out for a volume if the shop has it in the tiny shelf that only certian book shops have, joy.
Farewell Onemanga, you will be missed...
You know, with the SE service, I was initially, "America and FRANCE?!?! Oh come on, what about the UK!?!?". But when I think furhter about it, isn't a great deal of the stuff that the publishers don't allow to stream to the UK, not because they're not allowed to stream that series to the UK (I even think a few series they Can stream to the UK are included), but more because we're too close to Europe, allowing them to leech off us?
It might be a similar thing here, that is, they're going for France so they can let the US one stream to the UK?
Probably not, but you can blame a guy for having a little hope...
You know, with the SE service, I was initially, "America and FRANCE?!?! Oh come on, what about the UK!?!?". But when I think furhter about it, isn't a great deal of the stuff that the publishers don't allow to stream to the UK, not because they're not allowed to stream that series to the UK (I even think a few series they Can stream to the UK are included), but more because we're too close to Europe, allowing them to leech off us?
It might be a similar thing here, that is, they're going for France so they can let the US one stream to the UK?
Probably not, but you can blame a guy for having a little hope...
@Lifesong
If you are also an advocate of the free market, you will realize that intellectual rights share a very dangerous territory with it's very opposite, because intellectual rights forbid others from competing in the most efficient production of a product. For example, lets say someone has the license to 'Bleach', but I can produce 'Bleach' products of higher quality, and cheaper too. I am however, forbidden to do so because I don't own the rights to do so. This means that the product 'Bleach' is not in competition, although it may be competing with a varying degree of substitutes.
Taking it one step further, you postulated that the free market is determined by the forces of supply and demand, without government intervention. Intellectual rights are maintained by the government, as it is against the law to infringe upon them, meaning that the government is already intervening upon the free market of intellect. If no government intervention were to occur, it would not be against the law to reproduce any pieces of intellectual property, and the true, intrinsic cost of production will become reflected by the price determined by supply and demand.
However, because intellectual rights do exist, as a side-effect of encouraging more intellectual productions, the exclusive nature of this skews the price, which is supposed to be determined by supply and demand. Taking it a step even further, scanlations are evidence of what the real market should be like - with producers producing a product at virtually 0 cost.
Now I realize that the above example is somewhat contradictory in that scanlators don't accurately reflect the full cost of production, but it's enough for anyone to recognize that when you're dealing with a digital medium, it costs close to nothing to distribute. Scanlations are evidence of this fact. So why are we allowing distributors to charge us so exuberantly for something that should cost us close to nothing?
If you are also an advocate of the free market, you will realize that intellectual rights share a very dangerous territory with it's very opposite, because intellectual rights forbid others from competing in the most efficient production of a product. For example, lets say someone has the license to 'Bleach', but I can produce 'Bleach' products of higher quality, and cheaper too. I am however, forbidden to do so because I don't own the rights to do so. This means that the product 'Bleach' is not in competition, although it may be competing with a varying degree of substitutes.
Taking it one step further, you postulated that the free market is determined by the forces of supply and demand, without government intervention. Intellectual rights are maintained by the government, as it is against the law to infringe upon them, meaning that the government is already intervening upon the free market of intellect. If no government intervention were to occur, it would not be against the law to reproduce any pieces of intellectual property, and the true, intrinsic cost of production will become reflected by the price determined by supply and demand.
However, because intellectual rights do exist, as a side-effect of encouraging more intellectual productions, the exclusive nature of this skews the price, which is supposed to be determined by supply and demand. Taking it a step even further, scanlations are evidence of what the real market should be like - with producers producing a product at virtually 0 cost.
Now I realize that the above example is somewhat contradictory in that scanlators don't accurately reflect the full cost of production, but it's enough for anyone to recognize that when you're dealing with a digital medium, it costs close to nothing to distribute. Scanlations are evidence of this fact. So why are we allowing distributors to charge us so exuberantly for something that should cost us close to nothing?
@fission2 You make a good point. There is no "pure" free market in existence. Even the US which I believe to be the closest thing to a "pure" free market is not without its restraints.
That said even in a theoretical "pure" free market situation government has a role and that is protection of property. The ability for someone to claim something such as a brand name as theirs does not defeat a free market in and of itself. I am no expert on how laws concerning how off branding work but so long as someone can legally make a better bleach under a different name free market principles are upheld.
This logic is very hard to apply to something that is nothing but data. As there is no physical property being traded. How would you apply ownership of property if not in an artificial way ?
Perhaps we are trying to use a wheel that has a square shape when applied to something that is purely intellectual. If that is the case what would you suggest is needed to reinvent this wheel to better fit free market logic?
That said even in a theoretical "pure" free market situation government has a role and that is protection of property. The ability for someone to claim something such as a brand name as theirs does not defeat a free market in and of itself. I am no expert on how laws concerning how off branding work but so long as someone can legally make a better bleach under a different name free market principles are upheld.
This logic is very hard to apply to something that is nothing but data. As there is no physical property being traded. How would you apply ownership of property if not in an artificial way ?
Perhaps we are trying to use a wheel that has a square shape when applied to something that is purely intellectual. If that is the case what would you suggest is needed to reinvent this wheel to better fit free market logic?
Hm the last time I felt like this was when mininova was taken down...but that is different sorta. They'll never be able to kill online manga scans as hard as they might try and I think while they might have helped people discover new manga they probably have hurt the industry a tiny bit.
I'm gonna miss not being able to read Fairy Tale, Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece Manga. Although I'm sure with the end of Onemanga some of its 2.4 million viewers will start sites of their own to fill the void left by its exit.
I'm gonna miss not being able to read Fairy Tale, Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece Manga. Although I'm sure with the end of Onemanga some of its 2.4 million viewers will start sites of their own to fill the void left by its exit.
I am impressed they actually stood down. What with Crunchyroll going legit and these guys stepping down, maybe there are good people on the internet.
This is just great, but what about us that life in backwater countries, like Africa? I know we are just a drop in a large bucket, but we are still a drop. This is just like Veoh, because it is not profitable to host in Africa we just get scraped and now my access to manga is taking the same route.
FTW -(in biker tradition)
FTW -(in biker tradition)
I never read much on onemanga... but this is really starting to take a toll on me. If you add up the 1482 mangas I have down on my list (and counting). And you add that up with the $5-10... You think I - with no money would spend over ten thousands dollars on manga? And this is only including the FIRST CHAPTER(volume... whatevs XP). Seriously, I know its all about getting money out to the publishers... but gaah. This seriously blows. You sure are going to lose a lot of credibility with your fans overseas.
Given that the whole push from publishers to buy manga to support the artist is bullcrap, I can't say this is a good thing. It's almost like, why should I really care about you who says support the artist while keeping him/her chained to an oppressive contract that can't reveal any details or the contract and all their work will be gone.
OH NOEZ! I'Z HAVE TO BUY THE MANGA I READ WITH MONEY NOWZ!!!GIVE ME BACK MY FREE MANGA YOU BASTARDS!!!!!! GIVE ME FREE STUFF!!!!
I hate people like that. Fans of unlicensed stuff though, do have my sympathy. Although I'm sure a quick google search will do you wonders.
I hate people like that. Fans of unlicensed stuff though, do have my sympathy. Although I'm sure a quick google search will do you wonders.
Ya now that onemanga is closed...I refuse to buy manga legit now. I always read ahead and bought the manga anyway. But now people have to be #$#holes and ruin for everyone. I know one person wont effect it but meh they are not getting my money anymore.
