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Looks like the Shonen Maru No.2 was swerving towards the Ady Gil in the second video. The first hand video on the Japanese vessel didn't really show who hit who.
But I am no sea captain, so my views mean zilch. And I am still very much anti-whaling.
But I am no sea captain, so my views mean zilch. And I am still very much anti-whaling.
I love Japan, but I hate how they kill animals like whales, dolphins and turtles at restaurants. I know, I am a hypocrate because I eat meat, but... oh crap, I can't explain and get out of this as a smart person. I'm dumb, but I want to kill the people who kill whales.
It's pretty obvious that it was an intentional act by the anti-whaling dumbasses in that video. First off, their new trimaran should be FAR more maneuverable than a 300ft old vessel, so if they really didn't want to collide they could have easily steered clear. Secondly, these dumbasses have a history of trying to ram Japanese ships, so how can there possibly be any doubt as to whose fault it is.
Question: Is the whaling they're doing actually illegal? I had understood that the Japanese had certain exceptions in regards to hunting whales, and that although there were restrictions, they could still hunt them under certain conditions. Also, if their whaling actions were illegal then why wasn't the Australian government pursuing legal action for it going on near them?
Question: Is the whaling they're doing actually illegal? I had understood that the Japanese had certain exceptions in regards to hunting whales, and that although there were restrictions, they could still hunt them under certain conditions. Also, if their whaling actions were illegal then why wasn't the Australian government pursuing legal action for it going on near them?
it's not a matter of legality, for eco-groups, they're pursuing ideals. corporations are for the most part law-abiding, but their 'exploitative' nature generally arouse some ethical concerns. in this case, whale-hunting is completely legal, so long as they keep within quota. one of the arguments that anti-whalers make is that the japanese make their whaling trips outside of restricted space or ignore it in entirety, which is true to some degree.
but what can you do when it's a black market activity?
but what can you do when it's a black market activity?
Wait, if the whaling is illegal, how come no government has sought legal action? I'm no fan of whaling, but I've always had a strong distaste for these kinds of anti-whaling jackasses. You know, somehow I wouldn't be surprised if the ramming was intentional. They seem like the kind of people who would be dumb enough to try it.
Yes, I'm the kind of guy who roots for the Japanese whalers whenever I watch Whale Wars. I may not like what they do, but it seems like they're just trying to make a buck, while the anti-whalers just come off as pretentious.
Yes, I'm the kind of guy who roots for the Japanese whalers whenever I watch Whale Wars. I may not like what they do, but it seems like they're just trying to make a buck, while the anti-whalers just come off as pretentious.
as for me, i agree that it's absurd to expect a whaling vessel to be able to maneuver away at such close distance; although it looked like to me that it was the ocean waves that dealt the last blow, it was carelessness by the anti-whalers for moving to such a close distance in the first place. a huge ship just isn't nimble enough in the first place to steer away at that distance. course corrections of that delicateness are nigh impossible.
and if the ship was aiming at the anti-whalers, it would have been a lot more obvious. it's really not fair to the driver who hits a pedestrian when the pedestrian is jay-walking a highway. in fact, this happened about a year ago, when some drunk idiots decided to cross a highway. the driver who hit them was acquitted of all charges. and it only made sense that the driver, who by all merit was the victim, didn't take responsibility for others. why the hell should this case be any different?
and if the ship was aiming at the anti-whalers, it would have been a lot more obvious. it's really not fair to the driver who hits a pedestrian when the pedestrian is jay-walking a highway. in fact, this happened about a year ago, when some drunk idiots decided to cross a highway. the driver who hit them was acquitted of all charges. and it only made sense that the driver, who by all merit was the victim, didn't take responsibility for others. why the hell should this case be any different?
The way I see it there are four possibilities: 1) The little ship is at fault, 2) The big ship is at fault, 3) They both are at fault, or 4) Neither of them are at fault. I think four is very unlikely and 3 most likely. It did appear that the Shonen Maru turned towards the Ady Gil in the second video, but for most of the video, the big ship is turned away from little boat. The sudden turn towards it could have been caused by a swell, which can be big enough in those waters to rock cruise ships. Also, the Shonen Maru is clearly being more defensive by trying to spray them off with water.
If I had to bet money on this, I'd say the Ady Gil deliberately rammed into the Shonen Maru. I don't necessarily agree with whaling, but that kind of violent action is not the solution. Their little batmobile boat looks expensive, and they could have nearly died. The Aussies turning kamikaze may be a bit ironic, but it's dry and no where near funny. It was very foolish to be harassing large ships like that to begin with.
If I had to bet money on this, I'd say the Ady Gil deliberately rammed into the Shonen Maru. I don't necessarily agree with whaling, but that kind of violent action is not the solution. Their little batmobile boat looks expensive, and they could have nearly died. The Aussies turning kamikaze may be a bit ironic, but it's dry and no where near funny. It was very foolish to be harassing large ships like that to begin with.
International law prohibits any commercial whaling. However, it does allow whales to be killed for scientific research. Currently, the Japanese fleet kills about 1000 whales a year, obstinately for research; however, it's something of an open secret that this whale meat winds up on the Tsukiji Fish Market and in various Japanese restaurants. In other words, Japan is engaging in commercial whaling and lying about it. Ergo, their activities are illegal.
The reason no governments are taking action against Japan is because they don't want to get embroiled in a political conflict with one of the world's largest economic superpowers. The International Whaling Commission had a hard enough time getting Japan to comply with the moratorium on commercial whaling back in the 80s. Only threats of heavy sanctions from the United States convinced them to comply. Getting Japan to stop their current whaling program would be just as difficult.
The reason no governments are taking action against Japan is because they don't want to get embroiled in a political conflict with one of the world's largest economic superpowers. The International Whaling Commission had a hard enough time getting Japan to comply with the moratorium on commercial whaling back in the 80s. Only threats of heavy sanctions from the United States convinced them to comply. Getting Japan to stop their current whaling program would be just as difficult.
@Gee-Man: The Japanese are using a loop hole where they can hunt a limited amount of whales for scientific research, but that whale meat ends up on peoples plates sometimes later.
As for the video I was hoping the anti-whalers drowned to death. Like seriously those people are like mini terrorist of the sea. They pretty much launched themselves at that whaling boat. They have this bat-boat that can probably turn on a dime, while the whalers have this huge ass thing that probably takes like 40-100 feet to turn. So I see them at fault for getting in the way.
As for the video I was hoping the anti-whalers drowned to death. Like seriously those people are like mini terrorist of the sea. They pretty much launched themselves at that whaling boat. They have this bat-boat that can probably turn on a dime, while the whalers have this huge ass thing that probably takes like 40-100 feet to turn. So I see them at fault for getting in the way.
*Double Post* As for the ethicality of the whole thing, the only thing that is wrong is that they aren't giving Whales more time to reproduce. Seeing as Whales are like humans and only have one baby at a time. We should be waiting a long, long time till we yank another Whale out of the see.
If you watch the extended the japanese must regardless of the situation always give way to vessels coming across the starboard side which they clearly did not or try to make way. The actual more serious crime here is that they ignored an international mayday. Just like driving even if you were not at fault if you run into someone you must give assistance.
The problem for Australia is that Japan has gone as far as to cut trade deals with Australia if they properly interviene, which would be a major loss to the economy. Japan though need to release that Southern waters are protected by Australia, and so it is within Australia's right to prohibit them access to whaling either it be for commercial or research reasons.
Regardless of the political and economic reasons the ignoring the mayday is where things have gone out of hand, even if the ramming is probably more the issue. So guilt and fault of the ramming is obvious. Also not to mention firing your water cannons on a stricken ship also doesnt help your case.
The problem for Australia is that Japan has gone as far as to cut trade deals with Australia if they properly interviene, which would be a major loss to the economy. Japan though need to release that Southern waters are protected by Australia, and so it is within Australia's right to prohibit them access to whaling either it be for commercial or research reasons.
Regardless of the political and economic reasons the ignoring the mayday is where things have gone out of hand, even if the ramming is probably more the issue. So guilt and fault of the ramming is obvious. Also not to mention firing your water cannons on a stricken ship also doesnt help your case.
Oh, yeah. I remembered seeing a Japanese newscast. They Japanese vessel kept sending the bat-boat signals to give them space and to move, but they ignored it and kept attacking them with sonar devices. They should have went a mile out to turn back around and finish the job.
The Australians will not intervene because the Ady Gil is registered in New Zealand, so it is up to NZ authorities to investigate, as they are doing.
As a NZér with a Japanese fiance, I am able to see things from both sides. While I don't approve of needless slaughter of whales, I don't approve of the tactics of these protesters, and if you constantly harass & put yourself in harms way, then eventually it is going to end in tears. Fortunately this time no one was injured or worse, the sub-Antarctic is no place to be on a sinking ship !
As a NZér with a Japanese fiance, I am able to see things from both sides. While I don't approve of needless slaughter of whales, I don't approve of the tactics of these protesters, and if you constantly harass & put yourself in harms way, then eventually it is going to end in tears. Fortunately this time no one was injured or worse, the sub-Antarctic is no place to be on a sinking ship !
The video clearly shows the Bat Boat gunning its way into trouble. Fuck em. They are lucky they didn't Darwin themselves off the planet.
Wood bat boat cannot get in front of a metal ship 6 times its size.
... and if whales should stop being so damn tasty if they don't want to get eat'n.
Anyone who thinks the Japanese were wrong in any of this, including the mayday, needs to grow a pair. They are playing WAR over cultural differences. The white people are lucky they haven't been shot to death for getting in the way of the Japanese hunters.
Wood bat boat cannot get in front of a metal ship 6 times its size.
... and if whales should stop being so damn tasty if they don't want to get eat'n.
Anyone who thinks the Japanese were wrong in any of this, including the mayday, needs to grow a pair. They are playing WAR over cultural differences. The white people are lucky they haven't been shot to death for getting in the way of the Japanese hunters.
Wow, I just wish there were casualties...on the illegal whale-poacher side.
Japan has an amazing talent of circumventing laws through laughably absurd technicalities: can't have porn on primetime TV so, rather than showing "porn" they show two naked people having sex and place a tiny mosaic on the genitals during penetration.
These illegal whalers have completely depleted the whales in their waters and now seek to make money off of another "technicality circumvention" by claiming that the whales they're killing are for "scientific study" ...yeah, research on how to kill whales. Once the whales are killed, they then sell the whale carcasses to whale-meat companies.
...and how is that different from whaling? I'm sure they'll have some brilliant speech prepared on how this is technically different.
Japan has an amazing talent of circumventing laws through laughably absurd technicalities: can't have porn on primetime TV so, rather than showing "porn" they show two naked people having sex and place a tiny mosaic on the genitals during penetration.
These illegal whalers have completely depleted the whales in their waters and now seek to make money off of another "technicality circumvention" by claiming that the whales they're killing are for "scientific study" ...yeah, research on how to kill whales. Once the whales are killed, they then sell the whale carcasses to whale-meat companies.
...and how is that different from whaling? I'm sure they'll have some brilliant speech prepared on how this is technically different.
Yeah, it honestly is pretty fucked up how the Japanese kill Whales and other endangered sea species.
Those bastards love to fish, even it means wiping out entire races. I guess you gotta give them some kudos for that...
Those bastards love to fish, even it means wiping out entire races. I guess you gotta give them some kudos for that...
Ugh, I hate both sides in this story TBH.
I hate these Japanese fishermen/poachers that hunt endangered whale, and I hate holier than thou eco-terrorists that try to force their world-view on people through aggressive action.
Both of them can drown for all I care.
I hate these Japanese fishermen/poachers that hunt endangered whale, and I hate holier than thou eco-terrorists that try to force their world-view on people through aggressive action.
Both of them can drown for all I care.
it's pretty cruel to kill whales , i think they are really fascinating creatures .
it's good they get attack , i hope the world is more of a peaceful place .
it's good they get attack , i hope the world is more of a peaceful place .
I'm on the wall on this issue.
1. The fact that the majority of whales that the Japanese hunt are not endangered is somewhat acceptable to me.
2. There is actual research being done, and the type of research being done does require some whales to die. They are also required by the treaty to process and sell the meat so that the sacrifice of the animals does not go to waste. (and to recoup the cost of the research)
3. The fact that the Sea Shepherd people are flying a pirate flag, firing acid bombs at the ship, trying to destroy the ships propellers and in some cases boarding the Japanese ships gives me no sympathy for them.
4. As to the fault in the crash, piloting a ship is not like driving a car where you can stop on an eye. If you get in front of a train, it's going to run you over. It does look like the Japanese ship did turn in the video. In the other angle however, you can see that the small ship was thrusting forward (based on the water movement on the back of the ship) So, both are at fault. The fact that the small ship was flying a pirate flag and actively attacking the big ship means what legally as far as requiring to help the smaller ship/what actions you can take?
http://www.icrwhale.org/QandAjapanresearch.htm (interesting reading from a pro-whaling side)
(I can't find a good article or information about what you are legally allowed to do to a pirate at sea, apparently international law has a hole in it. Some countries are using 300 year old laws in regards to piracy)
1. The fact that the majority of whales that the Japanese hunt are not endangered is somewhat acceptable to me.
2. There is actual research being done, and the type of research being done does require some whales to die. They are also required by the treaty to process and sell the meat so that the sacrifice of the animals does not go to waste. (and to recoup the cost of the research)
3. The fact that the Sea Shepherd people are flying a pirate flag, firing acid bombs at the ship, trying to destroy the ships propellers and in some cases boarding the Japanese ships gives me no sympathy for them.
4. As to the fault in the crash, piloting a ship is not like driving a car where you can stop on an eye. If you get in front of a train, it's going to run you over. It does look like the Japanese ship did turn in the video. In the other angle however, you can see that the small ship was thrusting forward (based on the water movement on the back of the ship) So, both are at fault. The fact that the small ship was flying a pirate flag and actively attacking the big ship means what legally as far as requiring to help the smaller ship/what actions you can take?
http://www.icrwhale.org/QandAjapanresearch.htm (interesting reading from a pro-whaling side)
(I can't find a good article or information about what you are legally allowed to do to a pirate at sea, apparently international law has a hole in it. Some countries are using 300 year old laws in regards to piracy)
Just a revisit of the issue. There is no good to be had from trying to negotiate anti-whaling terms with Japan. It's marked as a cultural issue, although whale meat eating is supposedly dying out.
And we know like slavery of black people and women, we should not let cultures die out.
[i]"Some opinion polls show that younger generations of Japanese are more interested in conservation than culinary delights. The price for whale meat in Japan has decreased in recent years -- falling to $12 a pound in 2004 compared with $15 a pound in 1999. Demand for whale meat has been anemic. Last year, the industry put 20 percent of its 4,000-ton haul into frozen surplus.
So the government and pro-whaling groups have pumped cash into the promotion of eating whale meat. The government is spending about $5 million a year on such campaigns, while groups of housewives and other organizations are sponsoring whale cooking classes and related seminars to stimulate the market, according to officials and industry sources."[/i]
And we know like slavery of black people and women, we should not let cultures die out.
[i]"Some opinion polls show that younger generations of Japanese are more interested in conservation than culinary delights. The price for whale meat in Japan has decreased in recent years -- falling to $12 a pound in 2004 compared with $15 a pound in 1999. Demand for whale meat has been anemic. Last year, the industry put 20 percent of its 4,000-ton haul into frozen surplus.
So the government and pro-whaling groups have pumped cash into the promotion of eating whale meat. The government is spending about $5 million a year on such campaigns, while groups of housewives and other organizations are sponsoring whale cooking classes and related seminars to stimulate the market, according to officials and industry sources."[/i]
Anti-whaling in Australia is a huge issue. I should know as I live in Australia, and since this happened, its been on the news for a while with talk shows condemning the japanese and all - it kinda feels like propaganda after a while. With reported japanese piloted planes lifting off from australian soil being used to monitor any anti whaling activities, and now this ramming with boats that are registered from a whole lot of different countries, it is gonna be a pretty big legal bundle.
The reality is, if noone else is going to prevent the whale population from depleting, this fight is going to continue and in an anti-whaler mindset, it is supposed to be "up to them" to speak for and save the whales.
Even if this is a japanese cultural issue, it is also an global environmental issue, and that's become all the hype these days. Save the world, the forest, the sea, practically anything that can breath. And so eventually global environment will trump japanese cultural because when whales die out, everyone loses.
The reality is, if noone else is going to prevent the whale population from depleting, this fight is going to continue and in an anti-whaler mindset, it is supposed to be "up to them" to speak for and save the whales.
Even if this is a japanese cultural issue, it is also an global environmental issue, and that's become all the hype these days. Save the world, the forest, the sea, practically anything that can breath. And so eventually global environment will trump japanese cultural because when whales die out, everyone loses.
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