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Talking to the publishers about the anti-piracy coalition


6:00 PM on 06.09.2010
Talking to the publishers about the anti-piracy coalition photo



Yesterday, the announcement of the long-overdue anti-piracy coalition within the manga industry got a lot of people riled up, both here at Japanator and across the 'net. Of course, the press release wasn't the most specific thing in the world, which left a lot of questions on my mind.

So, I decided to go straight to the source and tap a number of publishers for more information about this coalition.

After the jump, I'll go into a bit more detail as to just what this coalition is made up of, how it attempts to shape the industry, and if it will really be all that effective. There's quite a bit, because I want to let the publishers have their say.

"To protect the intellectual property rights of our creators and the overall health of our industry, we are left with no other alternative but to take aggressive action."

More or less, this was a declaration of war against online hosting sites such as OneManga and MangaFox. Collecting scanlations from all across the Internet, these sites host the items with advertising displayed or some even charge premium memberships to people in order to get material, making a profit off these already gray-area goods.

Smaller scanlation groups that can just disband and reform, or impossible to target areas like IRC aren't really the main focus of this group. They're trying to be a bit more realistic. The coalition itself will be made up of representatives from all the leading publishers on both sides of the Pacific.

I got a chance to talk with Ed Chavez, the Marketing Director for Vertical, Inc., about the whole issue. Ed brought up that scanlation is no longer about translating the obscure titles or the ones that would take years to come out here in the US:

Pirates go to such lengths as to scan our translations and covers because the source material (Japanese editions) are hard to find....Scanlation behavior, which used to be communal and self-regulating, has now becoming completely corrupt. From a legal perspective, this new trend is cannot be easily defended giving us an interesting position if we as a group pursue legal action.

Vertical hasn't been the only company to have their English versions scanned and uploaded -- Yen Press was one of the victims as well. If you listened to Kurt Hassler's, head of Yen Press, appearance on the ANNCast, he talked about the issue and how it was affecting them greatly. His talk there fits with word that I heard Yen was originally planning on going at this alone, with the help of their Japanese partner Square Enix, before stumbling across other publishers who were planning the same. Soon after, a coalition was formed.

We've seen rumblings from both sides of the Pacific on this issue, so it's hard to pinpoint where the whole plan started, but there seems to be a serious passion on the US side to getting this done, so I'm leaning a bit more that way. Presentations have been made to committees on the Japanese Diet, and according to Chavez, the group is in the final stages of obtaining legal representation for the group as a whole.

So, more on Yen Press specifically. I got a chance to talk to Hassler about the whole issue, and got an interesting response from him in regards to what the group plans to do after the cease-and-desist letters are sent out. Quoth Hassler:

Really, that’s going to be dictated by the sites themselves. In recent weeks, the industry has seen the consequences to the proprietor of a site not unlike the ones we are targeting.  Intellectual property theft is a crime, and there are significant civil and criminal penalties involved — particularly for sites operating on this scale. We hope the operators have the good sense to shut down on their own before there’s no going back. As to the coalition’s plans, I think the press release pretty much laid it out: injunctions, statutory damages, and reports to authorities at both local and federal levels. The potential fallout is dire.  My personal take on it?  You know that Kenny Rogers song, The Gambler? Take a lesson from the lyrics.  It’s time to run...

One of the comments I've seen popping up again and again is that this sounds a bit like the RIAA. The difference here, though, is that they're not looking to target individual readers -- that would be suicide. Instead, they're looking to cut down some of the worst offenders and replace those online offerings with their own. Yen Plus is moving to an online format, Viz's SigIKKI offerings and I believe even Vertical is planning to get some online distribution here and there.

For sites that exist outside the US? Both the US and Japanese publishers will be tapping into their networks of contacts, says Viz rep Jane Lui. That might not sound like much, but remember: we're not talking about just Viz or Vertical or Del Rey. This brings in Shogakukan, Square Enix, Random House, Hachette and many others -- companies with massive international reach that can easily work with their foreign distributors to seek legal aciton.

Because, really, things need to change.

Publishers won't take risks with new titles if they know they can't sell them. There is certainly a demand there when you look at the downloads for scanlations, but that isn't translating into dollars. This might not affect the core titles like Bleach, Naruto or Black Butler, but it will affect more experimental titles for publishers -- the Kingyo Used Books, Twin Spica and Sundomes of tomorrow might never make it over to our shores.  






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Legacy Comments (will be imported soon)


This is the first I've heard of scantalators actually copypasta'ing the english releases. Pretty lame, but to be honest this sounds big move in the somewhat right direction of cutting down the bigger sites. The problem is that other sites will popup to replace them. It's like trying to target all major torrent sites with a nuclear missle, and the remains will reform elsewhere. They can take down the big sites like onemanga, but the individual scantalation groups will still exist and publish so eventually they'll be targeted too. That's when things are going to get hairy.
I'm curious as to exactly how much of the money made per sale actually goes to the 'creators' and not the distributor.
It's already getting hairy with the Mangafox "mature" image labeling issue. Since google is aware of the images, they're aware of scans and they *have* to know it's not legal.

I wonder if there could be some sort of amazing compromise site along the lines of Hulu...free but no copyright infringment?
Wow this is pretty big news. Now what I'm really curious about is if their sales numbers go up if this coalition ends up working in their favor, and if so, by how much.
I understand the people who translate releases that are only in Japanese. The people who rip English releases are dumb. Manga isn't that expensive. The fact that they are going after the websites instead of individual people is a plus.

I'm still waiting for K-On though....
Side note: Kingyo Used Books is really good. Translator really did their homework with all the references. Think Zetsubu-Sensei good.
@Sanori And how much money made from scans goes to the original creators? Zilch.

Anyway, I think it's great that the licensors are protecting their properties but I'd hates to see MangaFox and OneManga to go away entirely. There's so much manga that doesn't and never will get licensed in the US. If I can't obtain a series like Mazinger Z or Getter Robo legally then the only other option is to read thescans online.
I want to answer Sanori's question here cause I see this type of comment pop up here and there.

Creators get up to 20% of the sale of each book and they often get advances in the form of license fees that cost publishers thousands of dollars per volume licensed.

Publishers might get at most 10% of a books cover price to start. Now if a book becomes a hit (say more than 50,000 copies) then publishers start to see that percentage go up to 20% (as reprints begin to negate many of the overhead costs that are needed in manga licensing and production).

So by not buying manga readers are definitely impacting the creators as much or more than the publishers.
Again I say good for them. I really hope they succeed at this.

I also understand where Tuskus is coming from though. Hopefully if this works the publishers will start trying to get a lot more titles under their belts or turn a blind eye to the titles they know they'll never license.
I wish them success I just hope that when the smoke clears they provide a legitimate online presence to replace the one they are about to destroy.
this needs to be done. something, needs to be done..

I mean, c'mon..
It's a business.
Brad: You're a good man. You went straight to the source, got some answers, and now we can all say, "That's all good news, man".
@serial Trying this whole "journalism" thing out. I kinda like it.
@Brad Rice
Thats some innovation your going for. Don't get too carried away with it, or you might *gasp* become a journalist!
It had to happen some day. Better now than later.

Although in all honesty, if it weren't for OneManga, I wouldn't have had any compulsion to read manga at all, much less buy it. I hope a viable alternative for all titles can be agreed upon.
Yeah, props to you Brad for going to the source and answering the questions we have.

But I will admit like others, there are some manga that will never show up on this side of the Pacific Ocean and honestly, what the hell am I supposed to do about it? Import them? Learn Japanese? I'll go far for my hobbies but one can only do so much with such limited options. I really do hope publishes will start going digital and offer us efficient legal alternatives.

That said though, I wholeheartedly support this movement. If something isn't done, the industry will suffer and that's not something I want to see. Like I said though, I hope this isn't a complete destruction of online manga, but a legitimization of the system. Scanlations hurt the industry, but completely removing any form of online viewing will hurt it even worse.
We asked one of the two big manga piracy sites to please remove our books. We sent a proper and polite DMCA notification. When they did not respond, we reported their illegal activities with our titles to their advertising partners: Google Ad Services and GameAdvertising.com. They removed our titles immediately.

Yaoi Press is original English language graphic novels. Pirated material is never a 'scanlation.' It is always the illegal copying of our English language material. Piracy was devastating to us in 2007 and 2008. It continues to be an ongoing struggle to keep illegal copies offline. I know how dramatically even one illegal copy on an innocuous Live Journal community or YouTube slide show can be.

What I didn't know was that manga fans would often show sympathy when you explained this to them. This is why we started reaching out in the last few years, begging the yaoi fans to please stop distributing our graphic novels and art books online. Our entire library is available digitally on Amazon Kindle (with aps for viewing on the PC, MAC, iPad, iPhone, and Blackberry).

There's only a few sites that force us to take drastic action like complaining to advertisers, web hosts, or domain registars. Most respond to the DMCA complaints within 24 hours.
They're not taking risks on the manga I want to read so why should I care? No one is releasing Seto No Hanayome, nor Kongoro Banchou nor MAgical Cirle Guru Guru in english so the ball is entirely in thier court.
Only if the stuff on OM and MF are also available on Amazon Kindle and the like! Without that alternative, all this brouhaha is not really going to help much in the long run.
Thanks again Brad for going to the bottom of this. It shows how great of an editor and chief you are to Japanator.

@Brad Rice Whats your opinion if lets say all the manga publishers in the US decide to go with the omnibus edition release for all manga and new releases brought over here from japan instead of doing the single volume book release.


Though I will admit if people are complaining about the prices of the books, one manga volume is equivalent to buying five to four comic book issues. If anyone is a comic book collector, they have no excuse. Sure they may not be in color but the detail of the line work, the tone work, and shading make up for it.

I wish you all the best and that the sales will do better after this war comes to a conclusion one day.

Now the war between the Earth Manga Publishers and the Principality of Scandalation Uploaders will begin.
Who will survive?

@those worrying above about what this means for manga availability:

Everything I'm reading from the publishers' comments on this issue suggests that they are very well of the role that scanlations had filled in the industry (albeit clunkily, and they've vastly overreached that role now). If they're serious about cracking down on the 'scanlation' sites, and they are and should be, most publishers who aren't ignorant of the original role of scanlation will probably seek legitimate avenues for more immediate (and in-house) introduction of their manga to English-speaking audiences.

@yaoipress: I'm sorry to hear about your struggle with piracy through so-called 'scanlation' sites, and I hope this push will help you get a lot of that resolved. I am pleased to hear, however, of a publisher noting that although there are a lot of manga 'fans' that feel entitled to consume a limitless amount of other people's work for free, they aren't most manga fans, or even most people who read free (read: pirated) manga.

Here's hoping that publishers doing the sort of community outreach you mention helps fix this problem. I think a very large number of anime and manga fans will change their habits if they are presented with alternatives and the knowledge that their present actions hurt the industry. I know I have.
@Pangloss: Derp derp, should be "they are very well aware of the role..."
first of all, im from argentina, if it helps to explain my situation, bleach was released here in the later 2009, so, here, manga comes in drops, and 1 volume per month if we are lucky, and the translation is awful, its far below from a decent scanlation, by people that is doing that for freee
i do understand that this is a necessary thing to do for the industry, and i probably have to go back to the irc times, the manga will be still scanlated, if they cant do it with the movies, neither they will do it with manga.
i buy the licensed maga every time i can, from the few released mangas here
by closing the online manga sites, people will just go back to the forums, its as simple as that, they wont win almost anything, and maybe even lose, but, sadly as it sounds, its a thing that has to be done
the day onemanga and the sort close their doors will be sad indeed, but it wont be the end, scanlation wont die so easily
I know this is repeating, but thanks so much for the additional information and clarification!

Hopefully the action will not be only from the U.S. companies involved. Japanese publishers really need to realize that they have an amazing market overseas and start targeting that audience instead of marketing anime to Japanese otaku at exorbitant prices. I hope the steps U.S. sites are taking to make manga more available affect the way the industry as a whole works, though it of course will take a long time to see results.
This is probably going to look weird to some of the readers of scanlations, since I used to be fairly active in that scene, but I'm siding with the publishers on this one. The current trend in scanlations has gone beyond what the original intent behind them were. To help share a series we like with others in the hope that it would be licensed one day in our country.

There is clearly a blatant disregard for publishers and license holders by many of the newer scanlators these days where they will continue to scanlate titles that have been licensed. Titles like Naruto, Bleach, Full Metal Alchemist top that list, but aren't the only ones. It doesn't matter if the published volumes are behind. The fact remains that they've been licensed by publishers and are released. Support the publishers and mangaka by purchasing these titles.

Manga and anime are consumer products. They're luxury items. They cost money. It's a fact. And companies that bring these titles to you need to earn revenue to pay their employees, pay bills, pay for new licenses, renew licenses and such. Like it or not, it requires money. It's a business. Doing things "for the love of it" isn't going to help pay rent or the mortgage. This is the side that scanlation fans usually don't take into account. The companies aren't out there to deliberately be douche bags to you. If you look at the current landscape of the publishing industry for manga, they're pretty much fighting to stay alive these days.

So when aggregator sites ignore requests to remove certain titles by licensors and publishers, or don't remove them when they hear of licensing announcements, it really does affect their bottom line, more so than scanlation fans would like to believe. The publishers have been pretty nice about it in the past, just a simple email request to remove titles, but when such requests are constantly ignored, more drastic action needs to be taken. It's unfortunate that it's come to the point where such a coalition is necessary, but in the end, I think it is needed in the current climate where scanlations mostly do more harm than good. "Sticking it to the man" is only going to hurt the hobby we all love in this case.

Anyway, my 2 cents. Forgive me if it's long winded and "TL/DR".
According to a comment from Ed Chavez on twitter, they are working on a legal alternative.

My problem is going to be if series that are unlicensed, that I have asked to be licensed, get yanked due to this. I'm not going to give those up just because of a shutdown.

That said, around 75% of the manga I've bought in the past year, has been due to reading and really liking the scans. Without a way to see if I'd like it or not, I'd probably leave the market.

That said, my behavior may be different from the norm.

The question is for every person like me who would leave the market in the worst case scenario, would they make 2-3 people who do nothing but read scans now start buying?

Despite my issues, I do support the publishers in this, as seeing Bleach/Naruto/FMA being so avaliable on scans is wrong.

Who cares if scanaltions are illegal. The prices of manga are very high and onemanga and mangafox are free.
In my opinion I feel that alot of the feed back from people who read this are one sided. Either you just want to read manga, or you feel that the publishers and mangakas deserve money for their work point blank period. While I think they deserve their money (cause obviously they aren't drawing and distributing for free) if a company or artist doesn't aim for a globalized market with several different languages to view it in, aren't they giving up the hope for any real monitary gain from other area's? Also if they were going to band together and get serious they could make money off of the internet seriously while banded together as well. As one power they could release manga on one website at the price of $30-40 as a unit and more than get their money back for years of free manga and more than half of the people who read from big sites would jump on that if those same sites were stripped of manga. The problem is basically scanlation or translators, but even that problem would easily be solved if they put some effort into it.
For years most scanlators have worked on RAW versions of cartoons and manga for years for free. No doubt this alliance has the resources to try the act of putting contracts up for bid on projects to have them scanlated for a fee and still make even more money yet by releasing for a global market. At the same time alot of things have gone wrong and I do see the need for rules and stipulations to be enforced on anti-theft of licensed and copyright sensitive material, so they are in the right vein in my opinion. The full throttle from the beginning is probably making people nervous and sensative.
Do I want to read translated manga, yes. Would I and most other people pay to read translated manga, yes. It is to this end that I'd hope that publishers would take advantage of the situation positively to increase consumer base and fix profit margins, but until they do something that doesn't seem as harsh i guess i will try to learn how to read RAW manga's and import books for when they finish tearing into the major sites that are costing them thousands if not millions of dollars a week/month.
I read most, if not all of the posts and da mighty plum's post about the original intent of scanlating groups is legitimate. However, for representatives of this uppity anti-piracy coalition to say things like "We hope the operators have the good sense to shut down on their own before there’s no going back," that takes the cake. With such a grandiose title, the coalition is following in the footsteps of other large companies that have wrenched material into which incredible effort has been put from the hands of numerous fan-groups throughout the last several decades. Material that under no circumstances did these companies have any intention of building upon. (Chrono Ressurection comes to mind) Advocating the complete takedown of sites such as OneManga and MangaFox, goes against the purpose of scanlation, since it completely disregards the high percentage of series that have NOT in fact been liscenced in the english language. The only thing I can criticize those manga viewing sites for would be for ignoring requests to remove licensed material from their site. If you are going to host scanlations, you are taking a vow to completely control what shows up on the site and what doesn't. There is no excuse for not routinely sifting through all the material for traces of licensed intellectual property. That is, of course, the trouble with a working system that requires the trustworthiness of all its constituents.

I believe sites such as OneManga and MangaFox should seriously reconsider taking down their sites, in favour of sweeping out the licensed content from their site.

WHO DO THE INTERNETS BELONG TO? NOT YOU! I AM NOT A CORPORATE TOOL.
Stores like Borders and Barnes and Noble only carry mainstream stuff like One Piece , Bleach, Naruto. I don't like any of the mainstream stuff. And If I did order a series I liked. They eventually just got dropped. Good titles that I have actually been interested in have all been dropped. Whats the point of buying manga if the series is going to get dropped. Some titles I could mention include Rure, Junai Tokkou Taichou! , Apothecarius Argentum and a bunch of other titles that where dropped. All most all other titles I read ,have not been published in English. I would buy the manga if it where available in English. But its not and if they are they have a high percentage of being dropped. . I think publishers are hypocrites. They are fighting and demanding manga scanlations to be taken of the internet, but they cant even continue a series they pick up. I get excited when I stumble on a series I actually like, buy it, happily expecting another volume,only to find it it was drooped. Yeah published titles should be taken of the web. Since you could buy it in stores. But what about the rest? I think they should stay. Since where else can we read them? Unfinished series have just left a sour taste in my mouth, and utter disappointment. And considering the publishing company lack of creditability in general , why should I buy a title when the series could just get dropped the next month.
Piracy is a long-standing issue that's very hard to battle. It's only getting worse with the internet and the connectivity of the world. By that, I mean unless you have top of the line schlage access control, stealing what's rightfully yours (or a company's) can be as easy as taking candy from a baby. Of course, there's the other side of the coin to consider: not only is it getting easier for people to steal from one another, it also make distribution of illegal content easier, faster, and less risky. We are all justified in our anger with piracy (and the adverse effects it has on people who wish to conduct business in a legal and ethical way) but I just wonder what can really be done? Is there truly a way to ever stop it?
One Magna still exists, looks like they didn't stop them at all? @zeldajunky is right, I doubt piracy is ever going to disappear for good, unless they create security technologies that can keep a detailed account of these downloads. Not to mention who is more at fault- the "downloaders" or the source of the download?
Sorry, still not over this, not even sure what security technologies they could even use...thoughts? What did they use to catch all those Napster users? Because I know a girl who got charged $4,000 for downloading illegally.
Yeah, backdrop to you Brad for activity to the antecedent and answering the questions we have.
But I will accept like others, there are some manga that will never appearance up on this ancillary of the Pacific Ocean and honestly, what the hell am I declared to do about it? Import them? Learn Japanese? I'll go far for my hobbies but one can alone do so abundant with such bound options. I absolutely do achievement publishes will alpha activity agenda and action us able acknowledged alternatives.
That said though, I aboveboard abutment this movement. If article isn't done, the industry will ache and that's not article I demand to see. Like I said though, I achievement this isn't a complete abolition of online manga, but a legitimization of the system. Scanlations aching the industry, but absolutely removing any anatomy of online examination will aching it alike worse.
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