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You're really letting the font bother you that much? It's not even bad. Heaven forbid they try to be unique and use a font that actually fits the style of the story and art. Thankfully you're not soiling the word "review" by not labeling this article as such.
I am generally indifferent to all arguments for or against Twilight. But comparing it to Harry Potter makes me inexplicably sad.
I have no problems with this as long as it doesn't start affecting my other manga or Yotsuba&!. If this causes them to slow down production on Yotsuba&!, you will hear about it.
However, I WILL point this out: http://www.cracked.com/funny-36-twilight/
Now, I have never read the book. I ain't gonna diss it, but I am definitely going to say that vampires should not sparkle. At all.
However, I WILL point this out: http://www.cracked.com/funny-36-twilight/
Now, I have never read the book. I ain't gonna diss it, but I am definitely going to say that vampires should not sparkle. At all.
@bu8wk: It's much less a problem with the font than with the word balloon placement, which covers up the art in some places and is confusing in others.
I'm so glad I don't like the style so there's no chance I might be tempted by it.
Why is this tagged #manga? Gaphic novel does not equal manga.
Why is this even on Japanator? This is not a manga. What does Twilight have to do with anything else on here?
Why is this tagged #manga? Gaphic novel does not equal manga.
Why is this even on Japanator? This is not a manga. What does Twilight have to do with anything else on here?
Sadly I didn't bother to read this. But my hate for twilight forced me to leave comment. So here it is....This sucks I was going to subscribe to Yen plus but then they came out with gossip girls and I was like WTH? but then I said screw it I do it anyways and now this! I dont want sparkly vampires touching my soul eater.
@Violet Gray: Japanator has been covering the Twilight GN because in part because it's often referred to as a manga, and it's being published by a manga publisher. We also cover OEL manga and Korean productions on occasion, so our policy on "Japanese content" is more fluid than you might think.
I honestly never heard those arguments you mentioned whenever I hear people complaining about the series. Every argument I hear seems to focus on the weak and predictable storyline, extremely dull characters, Bella as a blatant self-insertion vehicle for lovesick 14-year-old girls (or 40-year-old women), and Stephanie Meyer's sappy, hack writing. After seeing the first movie, I can confirm that these are all very obvious and present - except for, obviously, Stephanie Meyer's writing, but the middling script likely couldn't help but be influenced by her unpalatable original work. So while you may be right about people's political misconceptions of Twilight being wrong (which I honestly never heard people complaining about), it doesn't change the fact that it is still an extremely poor series.
Not to mention, of course, the fact that her vampires are stupid.
Not to mention, of course, the fact that her vampires are stupid.
@Necros: I always hear the misogyny angle as a way of people trying to intellectualize their hate of the series- like "I don't just hate it because it's popular, it is bad for SERIOUS REASONS."
I don't disagree with the fact that it's extremely predictable and a wish-fulfillment vehicle; but this is coming from the girl who loves Sailor Moon, and no one's ever gotten on my case on Japanator for liking that. It's a double-standard.
I don't disagree with the fact that it's extremely predictable and a wish-fulfillment vehicle; but this is coming from the girl who loves Sailor Moon, and no one's ever gotten on my case on Japanator for liking that. It's a double-standard.
Erm Actually Magma would refer to a Graphic Novel.
And I believe this is posted because of the nice like bit about it being published by the publishers of Magma such as Yobutsa. I am glad that the live action Bleach did not get any press here either, since that will most likely not be written or cast or shot by an "Official Japanese Person".
And I believe this is posted because of the nice like bit about it being published by the publishers of Magma such as Yobutsa. I am glad that the live action Bleach did not get any press here either, since that will most likely not be written or cast or shot by an "Official Japanese Person".
I think the thing about twilight that makes it terrible is the fact that the writer is a mormon and forces her incredible bullshit all over the novel. Yeah, the immortal fucking SUPER SEXY VAMPIRE is a virgin, and then even past that you have the child raping and all of the fucked up shit in the last book.
Also I think sailor moon sucks too so there's that. The fact that the author wrote it with edward being her "dream guy" and shit is ridiculous, and the fact that he's a vampire only for the aspect of immortality is pathetic.
@Necros
The problem with the "predictable" angle is predictable for who? 14 Year old girls who most likely haven't read something like this before? Or the 20-30 year olds that have been exposed to so much more already (28 is twice as old as 14, and for a 14 year old, they likely haven't been exposed anything close to the level of Twilight for all that time).
For a young adult book to do well the characters have to be likable or easy to understand, and the story has to be something they are interested in, or easy to understand. Belle is perfect for that since (as you said) she is like a self insertion character for a young girl, since well, she is easy to understand.
Notice how nowhere in there did I say original, or unpredictable, or even good. Those are words you want to hear about her next series, or a regular fiction series, as opposed to Teen.
It's the reason some anime/manga seems "derivative". For the new audience that is reading it, that haven't read something like it before, it is brand new. It's also the reason a new boy band comes around every so often, or a new game in a series that is mostly the same as the older games *eyes The Edler Scrolls* comes out after so long. Lots of people that will be playing Starcraft II, will be playing a Starcraft game for the first time. Many people who played Morrowind never played the earlier games in the series.
The problem with the "predictable" angle is predictable for who? 14 Year old girls who most likely haven't read something like this before? Or the 20-30 year olds that have been exposed to so much more already (28 is twice as old as 14, and for a 14 year old, they likely haven't been exposed anything close to the level of Twilight for all that time).
For a young adult book to do well the characters have to be likable or easy to understand, and the story has to be something they are interested in, or easy to understand. Belle is perfect for that since (as you said) she is like a self insertion character for a young girl, since well, she is easy to understand.
Notice how nowhere in there did I say original, or unpredictable, or even good. Those are words you want to hear about her next series, or a regular fiction series, as opposed to Teen.
It's the reason some anime/manga seems "derivative". For the new audience that is reading it, that haven't read something like it before, it is brand new. It's also the reason a new boy band comes around every so often, or a new game in a series that is mostly the same as the older games *eyes The Edler Scrolls* comes out after so long. Lots of people that will be playing Starcraft II, will be playing a Starcraft game for the first time. Many people who played Morrowind never played the earlier games in the series.
I stopped reading after you claimed that Harry Potter had no substance. have you read the books at all?
I've read the books, and they're just poorly-written. You left out many MANY other problems with the series. Like the stalking. And the rape. Oh, and insulting your readers? Great way to get them to agree with you. Good job.
Interesting to hear some impressions from a neutral reader - they're rare as a shiny Mew these days.
@BatNeko: When did I insult my readers?
@PBzOr: Thank you so much for understanding that I'm neutral on Twilight.
@PBzOr: Thank you so much for understanding that I'm neutral on Twilight.
@luluko: Yes, I've read all of them. I enjoyed them while I was reading them, but I would be lying if I said they gave me much to think about when I put the book down. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I read all of them, and hated them all. Really, the only reason I read them was because it was an easy way to get Ar points (some stupid thing our school does to make sure wee read. Hate those quizzes.)
I've heard a lot of well thought out arguments rationalizing why Twilight is a piece of garbage (which isn't hard), and no one ever talked like in the example you gave (as in not being able to give a good argument). Now I'm a big Sailor Moon fan too (hell it's what got me into the whole anime/manga addiction) but just because I like something it doesn't mean I'm gonna ignore all the shit that makes it bad.
I don't like Twilight for some reasons:
1- Writing style. I'm not saying I need Shakespeare quality, but the (lack of) grammar and overall writing is disgusting (plot could've made some damn sense too).
2- Bella is a fucking Mary Sue from head to toe to cheesy name.
3- Characters are moronic and their actions and thoughts don't make a lick of sense.
4- Fucking glittering pussified vampires.
I could go on, but I won't since these is just my opinion.
And yes I've read the books. Laughed myself to oblivion and decided they were a waste of paper. There ARE people who hate the book and have read it too. The rest are just sheep who jumped in either bandwagon.
I don't like Twilight for some reasons:
1- Writing style. I'm not saying I need Shakespeare quality, but the (lack of) grammar and overall writing is disgusting (plot could've made some damn sense too).
2- Bella is a fucking Mary Sue from head to toe to cheesy name.
3- Characters are moronic and their actions and thoughts don't make a lick of sense.
4- Fucking glittering pussified vampires.
I could go on, but I won't since these is just my opinion.
And yes I've read the books. Laughed myself to oblivion and decided they were a waste of paper. There ARE people who hate the book and have read it too. The rest are just sheep who jumped in either bandwagon.
@Karen
Have to agree with you on that. While I definitely enjoyed reading the Harry Potter books, I just kind of forgot about them after I was finished.
Have to agree with you on that. While I definitely enjoyed reading the Harry Potter books, I just kind of forgot about them after I was finished.
@Yaku:
1- Writing style is totally subjective, and the "plot could've made some sense" thing is another issue entirely. Which is the problem?
2- How is Bella anymore a Mary Sue than many protagonists meant for that age group? She absolutely is, and it's absolutely par for the course.
3- You will have to explain what it is the characters do that does not make sense, and why they are stupid, in order for me to understand what you mean. Some characters are smart, some are stupid, some are smart people who do stupid things at times. Par for the course.
4- The glittering thing is silly, but the fact that people make such a big deal out of it highlights a lack of anything else to criticize. Sure, Edward sparkles- Kenshin's eyes glow. Anime characters go through transformation sequences. It's all the same crap.
Now, I would like to hear what those well thought-out arguments rationalizing why Twilight is a piece of crap are, if you're interested in elaborating- I really would. But as of yet I haven't seen any here, and most of the arguments I've taken part in have involved the misogyny angle- that's just my personal experience.
@DMNT: Yeah, and I'm not saying that they're bad either. I'm just making the comparison that both are short-term entertainment, and that's cool.
1- Writing style is totally subjective, and the "plot could've made some sense" thing is another issue entirely. Which is the problem?
2- How is Bella anymore a Mary Sue than many protagonists meant for that age group? She absolutely is, and it's absolutely par for the course.
3- You will have to explain what it is the characters do that does not make sense, and why they are stupid, in order for me to understand what you mean. Some characters are smart, some are stupid, some are smart people who do stupid things at times. Par for the course.
4- The glittering thing is silly, but the fact that people make such a big deal out of it highlights a lack of anything else to criticize. Sure, Edward sparkles- Kenshin's eyes glow. Anime characters go through transformation sequences. It's all the same crap.
Now, I would like to hear what those well thought-out arguments rationalizing why Twilight is a piece of crap are, if you're interested in elaborating- I really would. But as of yet I haven't seen any here, and most of the arguments I've taken part in have involved the misogyny angle- that's just my personal experience.
@DMNT: Yeah, and I'm not saying that they're bad either. I'm just making the comparison that both are short-term entertainment, and that's cool.
Honestly the actual reason I can't stand the story is because Bella is a b*tch who just strings along 2 poor saps, and causes inter-species conflicts that could have been avoided. Self-centered much?
Wow, Karen, you're consistently the best and most thoughtful writer on here. You always have good reasons for everything, and bring up interesting points in all your articles.
--Which is what brings out the flamers. You're too smart for the Internet, and its denizens will almost never reach a reasonable, adult dialogue about anything.
As for Twilight: I'm not the target audience, so I don't really need to have anything to do with the whole affair. My opinion on it doesn't matter. Here, I'll let Mrs. Giggles do the talking:
http://www.mrsgiggles.com/books/meyer_twilight.html
--Which is what brings out the flamers. You're too smart for the Internet, and its denizens will almost never reach a reasonable, adult dialogue about anything.
As for Twilight: I'm not the target audience, so I don't really need to have anything to do with the whole affair. My opinion on it doesn't matter. Here, I'll let Mrs. Giggles do the talking:
http://www.mrsgiggles.com/books/meyer_twilight.html
Eh, read your article, didn't change my opinion of what I consider to be one of the most poorly written pieces of fiction ever. And yes, just to make sure my intense hatred of the series was justified, I buckled down and read a few chapters.
I could go into why I dislilke its effect on young readers, but I feel anything I say will have already been repeated by everyone else, so there's no reason to go into deta-GODDAMIT, THE VAMPIRES FREAKING SPARKLE WTFOMGBBQ.
Nonetheless, interesting writeup from a more neutral person on the whole thing.
I could go into why I dislilke its effect on young readers, but I feel anything I say will have already been repeated by everyone else, so there's no reason to go into deta-GODDAMIT, THE VAMPIRES FREAKING SPARKLE WTFOMGBBQ.
Nonetheless, interesting writeup from a more neutral person on the whole thing.
@Karen
1- Let me rephrase that. Styles are ok, the woman just writes awfully. I've seen fanfics with better grasp of the English language. It's amateurish at best, but I have higher standards when I go into a bookstore looking for good books to read.
2- Main characters are meant to have the spotlight and usually be liked by the majority of the cast, that doesn't make them Mary Sue. Also, please keep in mind as I said in my first post that this is my opinion. I don't like Mary Sues, the ones I barely came to accept have enough flaws and realism in the long run of the story to break past the mold, Bella didn't even manage that. If you think Mary Sues like Bella make for a reasonable protagonist, then there's little one can say to convince you otherwise.
4- Maybe you're alright with people using mythical creatures (or whatever the hell vampires are) in the most loosely, lame way they can, and that's ok. I grew up with other kinds of vampires, sorry (and I'm not talking about the Anne Rice kind). And I beg to differ it's not the same crap as anime. Anime transformations can be AWESOME and have a purpose. Edward glittering doesn't have any and it's not a transformation. He just glitters in the sun and there's no explanation as to why that happens (Kenshin's eyes glow because he's enraged or his past memories overwhelm him).
3- I've had this conversation way too many times to even bother start here (thus the reason I said, it's just my opinion), this post just got into it when I'm up to here with this franchise. If you really want to see what people have to say about it outside of getting into the hating bandwagon, there are tons of blogs with miles-long essays about why Twilight is shit and why the characters don't make sense. Here's a short one that I agree with since I've said the same shit over and over again:
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/SOADrox429/blog/53663/
Maybe you will disagree, maybe you want very specific down to the page number examples; but I think you should keep in mind that liking or not Twilight is subjective; which doesn't mean it doesn't have reasons to suck or people do not have well thought out arguments as to why it does. There ARE books that are total crap in every sense of the word yet are still enjoyed by everyone; as long as it pleases people some things just slide past quality.
I don't care about the misogyny, because this books is still foremost fiction and wish-fulfilling reading. As long as one enjoys it for what it is, fiction, then whatever's their cup of tea (we all have fantasies after all). Hell I've read my fair share of lame, Mary Sue-ish, chauvinistic, sexual pieces of literature (I still do at times), but I'll be damned if I say they were worth recommending, preserving and passing on (or even decent).
And about the review, the only bad thing is the typesetting? Unless the editor and typesetter were lazy as hell (not erasing onomatopeias when it's easy, putting text in the wrong bubble order, typos...) I don't see a problem; in fact from the example you gave it doesn't look bad enough to deter one from recommending it. The art looks great, it's good to know they didn't resort to ultra-handsome bishounen and bishoujo styles. From what you wrote it seems they polish the story to make it more palatable than its source, so I will give it a try when I visit the bookstore.
Anyways there are many good arguments out there that go against and for Twilight; I've read very interesting ones from both sides. I'm out of the loop since a long time ago but in short, I've read the books unlike the people you argued with, and I think it's a piece of crap. I rather read Fushigi Yuugi than this, at least it keeps me entertained with the plot.
1- Let me rephrase that. Styles are ok, the woman just writes awfully. I've seen fanfics with better grasp of the English language. It's amateurish at best, but I have higher standards when I go into a bookstore looking for good books to read.
2- Main characters are meant to have the spotlight and usually be liked by the majority of the cast, that doesn't make them Mary Sue. Also, please keep in mind as I said in my first post that this is my opinion. I don't like Mary Sues, the ones I barely came to accept have enough flaws and realism in the long run of the story to break past the mold, Bella didn't even manage that. If you think Mary Sues like Bella make for a reasonable protagonist, then there's little one can say to convince you otherwise.
4- Maybe you're alright with people using mythical creatures (or whatever the hell vampires are) in the most loosely, lame way they can, and that's ok. I grew up with other kinds of vampires, sorry (and I'm not talking about the Anne Rice kind). And I beg to differ it's not the same crap as anime. Anime transformations can be AWESOME and have a purpose. Edward glittering doesn't have any and it's not a transformation. He just glitters in the sun and there's no explanation as to why that happens (Kenshin's eyes glow because he's enraged or his past memories overwhelm him).
3- I've had this conversation way too many times to even bother start here (thus the reason I said, it's just my opinion), this post just got into it when I'm up to here with this franchise. If you really want to see what people have to say about it outside of getting into the hating bandwagon, there are tons of blogs with miles-long essays about why Twilight is shit and why the characters don't make sense. Here's a short one that I agree with since I've said the same shit over and over again:
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/SOADrox429/blog/53663/
Maybe you will disagree, maybe you want very specific down to the page number examples; but I think you should keep in mind that liking or not Twilight is subjective; which doesn't mean it doesn't have reasons to suck or people do not have well thought out arguments as to why it does. There ARE books that are total crap in every sense of the word yet are still enjoyed by everyone; as long as it pleases people some things just slide past quality.
I don't care about the misogyny, because this books is still foremost fiction and wish-fulfilling reading. As long as one enjoys it for what it is, fiction, then whatever's their cup of tea (we all have fantasies after all). Hell I've read my fair share of lame, Mary Sue-ish, chauvinistic, sexual pieces of literature (I still do at times), but I'll be damned if I say they were worth recommending, preserving and passing on (or even decent).
And about the review, the only bad thing is the typesetting? Unless the editor and typesetter were lazy as hell (not erasing onomatopeias when it's easy, putting text in the wrong bubble order, typos...) I don't see a problem; in fact from the example you gave it doesn't look bad enough to deter one from recommending it. The art looks great, it's good to know they didn't resort to ultra-handsome bishounen and bishoujo styles. From what you wrote it seems they polish the story to make it more palatable than its source, so I will give it a try when I visit the bookstore.
Anyways there are many good arguments out there that go against and for Twilight; I've read very interesting ones from both sides. I'm out of the loop since a long time ago but in short, I've read the books unlike the people you argued with, and I think it's a piece of crap. I rather read Fushigi Yuugi than this, at least it keeps me entertained with the plot.
but seriously, I don't give a crap if it's "misogynistic" or not, it's just awful shit
this article was bad and you should feel bad
this article was bad and you should feel bad
@Yaku
1) TEEN Book. As in 13+. A solid grasp of the English language for that age? Really?
2) Sorry she's a "self insertion" character, not a Mary Sue. The fact that she needs to be saved kinda precludes being a Mary Sue doesn't it? Or did they change Mary Sue? I remember this discussion when Harry Potter was out and about. People couldn't even agree on who the Mary Sue was, they just knew there was one, cause that's something to be pointed at and say "see it sucks".
3) That "Blog Post", if you would call it that, falls into the "Video Games Cause Violence" argument and is garbage. I can break that one down, but if you believe that article, then you also believe that Video Games CAUSE violence and are of questionable opinion.
4) Can you start with Final Fantasy Vampires? They have been really really strange this whole time. Next can you get in touch with eastern vampires and western vampires to get them to agree on a mythology? Also as for his skin glittering, care to explain why his skin can't glitter in the sun? Does it need a reason like "OMG he has superpowers" and be explained more than any other super power in most ENTERTAINMENT, let along anime? Or do you really feel that a handwave reason is good enough, and Twilight is crap without it? (Hint: the reason he glitters has nothing to do with the story, the fact he glitters does)
Also Karen I think refers not to the typesettings, but balloon placement and the partial transparency of the balloons. Word Balloons should be out of the way, and not covering up people's faces.
There are good valid reasons to bash on Twilight, like glittering fucking vampires or it being aimed at young girls makes for poor adult reading, but don't bother trying to treat it as an adult book. People who read it aren't looking for an adult book, if they did want a more adult romance with werewolves and vampires they'd read Patricia Briggs, or something else that is aimed at that age segment.
1) TEEN Book. As in 13+. A solid grasp of the English language for that age? Really?
2) Sorry she's a "self insertion" character, not a Mary Sue. The fact that she needs to be saved kinda precludes being a Mary Sue doesn't it? Or did they change Mary Sue? I remember this discussion when Harry Potter was out and about. People couldn't even agree on who the Mary Sue was, they just knew there was one, cause that's something to be pointed at and say "see it sucks".
3) That "Blog Post", if you would call it that, falls into the "Video Games Cause Violence" argument and is garbage. I can break that one down, but if you believe that article, then you also believe that Video Games CAUSE violence and are of questionable opinion.
4) Can you start with Final Fantasy Vampires? They have been really really strange this whole time. Next can you get in touch with eastern vampires and western vampires to get them to agree on a mythology? Also as for his skin glittering, care to explain why his skin can't glitter in the sun? Does it need a reason like "OMG he has superpowers" and be explained more than any other super power in most ENTERTAINMENT, let along anime? Or do you really feel that a handwave reason is good enough, and Twilight is crap without it? (Hint: the reason he glitters has nothing to do with the story, the fact he glitters does)
Also Karen I think refers not to the typesettings, but balloon placement and the partial transparency of the balloons. Word Balloons should be out of the way, and not covering up people's faces.
There are good valid reasons to bash on Twilight, like glittering fucking vampires or it being aimed at young girls makes for poor adult reading, but don't bother trying to treat it as an adult book. People who read it aren't looking for an adult book, if they did want a more adult romance with werewolves and vampires they'd read Patricia Briggs, or something else that is aimed at that age segment.
I can give you a very good reason why Twilight is awful.
It's cribbing the same plot lines that other media has done to far greater effect and they haven't have to drag Vampires out of Castlevania and into an episode of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy to do it!
Example: Twilight saga: New Moon - A situation forces Edward to separate from Bella for what he perceives as her own protection and it drives her into depression.
Huh, that sounds familiar:
Example: Sailor Moon R - A situation forces Mamrou to separate from Usagi for what he perceives as her own protection and it drives her into depression.
So basically, The Second Twilight book is Sailor Moon R on depressants.
It's cribbing the same plot lines that other media has done to far greater effect and they haven't have to drag Vampires out of Castlevania and into an episode of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy to do it!
Example: Twilight saga: New Moon - A situation forces Edward to separate from Bella for what he perceives as her own protection and it drives her into depression.
Huh, that sounds familiar:
Example: Sailor Moon R - A situation forces Mamrou to separate from Usagi for what he perceives as her own protection and it drives her into depression.
So basically, The Second Twilight book is Sailor Moon R on depressants.
Same as it is in real life, poorly written dribble that stimulates sexual activity in women.
The had dime romance novels in the 70's that did the exact same thing
The had dime romance novels in the 70's that did the exact same thing
@Yaku: What Rangoric said. Also, the lettering- by which I mean word balloon placement as well as the actual letters (everything that has to do with the words, actually) isn't cause for me to jump in front of someone and say "don't buy this!" if they like the art. That's why I really didn't want to try to write an "official" review. If someone wants to buy it because they like it, more power to them, but I think the rush job that YP did on the lettering is a bad move for a publisher that primarily puts out graphic novels, and the only thing I can do is vote with my dollars, and tell people how I feel.
I can't know this, but many people think that YP did not hire a professional letterer on the assumption that Twilight: the GN was going to sell bajillions of copies anyway to people who didn't know from comics, and if that's true it's not something that they should be proud of.
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate though- if I gave the impression that there were NO legitimate criticisms of Twilight to be made, than that was an error on my part; obviously, if I thought it didn't have significant flaws, then I would be a fan of it instead of just neutral. However, the flaws that I consider legitimate, and that don't require politicization or a pre-conceived bias to see- sloppy writing, characters that some will find unlikable, etc.- are not the kind of flaws that the "Twilight is horrible and Stephanie Meyer should DIE in a fire" variety. The criticisms I wanted to address in regard to Twilight are the ones that try to paint it as the end of literature as we know it or what have you, not the kind of everyday criticisms that get applied to a metric ton of books in that demographic.
@Conan: Arrgh, your David Tennant avatar compels me to take you seriously! I don't get your concern though- it's a plot that's been around since the beginning of time, and Twilight makes use of it the same way a ton of stories, popular and not, use it. Although if you'd rather give Sailor Moonh R credit for it, I'm totally cool with that.
@Magnus Dexious: Wait, even if that's true, do you think that it's "well-written drivel" that stimulates sexual activity in men? Or do ONLY women get any sort of sexual engagement out of stories? PLZ EXPLAIN.
Normally I don't go this in-depth in the comment section, even if people are flaming me, but in this instance I'm really interested in the response.
@Nihon Freak: You're too smart for the internet too:). LOL, but thank you.
@Gee-Man: "And yes, just to make sure my intense hatred of the series was justified, I buckled down and read a few chapters."
Do you think that deciding you hated it before you read it might have had an impact on how you perceived the book? It seems like a lot of people who hate it, but say they read it, only tried it after they'd already decided that it must suck, and read it looking for that justification. If you pick up most things with the expectation that you're going to find stuff to hate, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. That doesn't mean you would like the series if you came to it fresh, but you can't claim any sort of objectivity if you only read it after formulating an opinion. I read it before the huge popularity wave broke, and all I really knew about it at the time was that it had SOMETHING to do with vampires, and I think that's why I'm more neutral on it than people who only read it after the Twihard phenomenon started.
@The Amazing Shenizan: WHY? Explain why it is awful and I should be ashamed of myself! EXPLAIN! I refuse to feel ashamed of myself until you EXPLAIN.
I can't know this, but many people think that YP did not hire a professional letterer on the assumption that Twilight: the GN was going to sell bajillions of copies anyway to people who didn't know from comics, and if that's true it's not something that they should be proud of.
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate though- if I gave the impression that there were NO legitimate criticisms of Twilight to be made, than that was an error on my part; obviously, if I thought it didn't have significant flaws, then I would be a fan of it instead of just neutral. However, the flaws that I consider legitimate, and that don't require politicization or a pre-conceived bias to see- sloppy writing, characters that some will find unlikable, etc.- are not the kind of flaws that the "Twilight is horrible and Stephanie Meyer should DIE in a fire" variety. The criticisms I wanted to address in regard to Twilight are the ones that try to paint it as the end of literature as we know it or what have you, not the kind of everyday criticisms that get applied to a metric ton of books in that demographic.
@Conan: Arrgh, your David Tennant avatar compels me to take you seriously! I don't get your concern though- it's a plot that's been around since the beginning of time, and Twilight makes use of it the same way a ton of stories, popular and not, use it. Although if you'd rather give Sailor Moonh R credit for it, I'm totally cool with that.
@Magnus Dexious: Wait, even if that's true, do you think that it's "well-written drivel" that stimulates sexual activity in men? Or do ONLY women get any sort of sexual engagement out of stories? PLZ EXPLAIN.
Normally I don't go this in-depth in the comment section, even if people are flaming me, but in this instance I'm really interested in the response.
@Nihon Freak: You're too smart for the internet too:). LOL, but thank you.
@Gee-Man: "And yes, just to make sure my intense hatred of the series was justified, I buckled down and read a few chapters."
Do you think that deciding you hated it before you read it might have had an impact on how you perceived the book? It seems like a lot of people who hate it, but say they read it, only tried it after they'd already decided that it must suck, and read it looking for that justification. If you pick up most things with the expectation that you're going to find stuff to hate, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. That doesn't mean you would like the series if you came to it fresh, but you can't claim any sort of objectivity if you only read it after formulating an opinion. I read it before the huge popularity wave broke, and all I really knew about it at the time was that it had SOMETHING to do with vampires, and I think that's why I'm more neutral on it than people who only read it after the Twihard phenomenon started.
@The Amazing Shenizan: WHY? Explain why it is awful and I should be ashamed of myself! EXPLAIN! I refuse to feel ashamed of myself until you EXPLAIN.
@ConanThe3rd
But there it is again. It's only old to you because you've seen it before. A lot of plot lines are new to people that are young. There is 1 (singular) vampire series that I can remember from Barnes & Noble (I worked the children's section, yes it was like hell) that was pre-teen, and that was Vampirates. Guess which gender that was aimed at?
So by teen how many vampire stories have they seen? Then how many love stories have they seen, how many varieties have they seen? By the time they hit the age bracket for Twilight they aren't even in high school yet, so might not have even read Romeo and Juliet.
But there it is again. It's only old to you because you've seen it before. A lot of plot lines are new to people that are young. There is 1 (singular) vampire series that I can remember from Barnes & Noble (I worked the children's section, yes it was like hell) that was pre-teen, and that was Vampirates. Guess which gender that was aimed at?
So by teen how many vampire stories have they seen? Then how many love stories have they seen, how many varieties have they seen? By the time they hit the age bracket for Twilight they aren't even in high school yet, so might not have even read Romeo and Juliet.
I can't believe I'm about to say this:
I was going to write the same thing as Necros... nearly word for word. God dammit I hate you Bob.
I was going to write the same thing as Necros... nearly word for word. God dammit I hate you Bob.
Long time lurker, first time poster. Here goes...
Karen, I found your views on the series to be honest and refreshing. Most arguments I hear treat the books with a strict love/hate approach with no room for other ideas or thoughts on the matter. I personally believe that the Twilight series, while not the best written by far, offers undeniable entertainment value. Even though I criticize the books, I've never felt the need to utterly obliterate them with senseless and unfounded critiques.
Also, I find the the problem usually isn't the books themselves, but the people on either side of the argument that make the fandom so completely irritating.
Karen, I found your views on the series to be honest and refreshing. Most arguments I hear treat the books with a strict love/hate approach with no room for other ideas or thoughts on the matter. I personally believe that the Twilight series, while not the best written by far, offers undeniable entertainment value. Even though I criticize the books, I've never felt the need to utterly obliterate them with senseless and unfounded critiques.
Also, I find the the problem usually isn't the books themselves, but the people on either side of the argument that make the fandom so completely irritating.
Hm--Here's a new angle, if anyone's still checking the comments on this thread: The thing that makes everyone so bitter about fandoms like this is the competitive assumption that someone has to win, someone has to lose, and the victor will enforce her/his fandom upon the loser, who has to like it no matter what forever and ever.
[So, in other words, it's exactly like all our hysterical and paranoid political atmosphere these days. In a word: Immature. On the defensive from a lack of self-confidence.]
--You can dislike something that other people like.
--You can like something that other people dislike.
--Giving in to peer pressure is not always losing, nor is it always the right thing to do.
It's called taste or preference, and it is not homogenous.
I don't like Twilight. But that doesn't make you a loser in my eyes unless you're going to get up in my face about it and turn the whole thing into a competition.
Wheee~! :)
[So, in other words, it's exactly like all our hysterical and paranoid political atmosphere these days. In a word: Immature. On the defensive from a lack of self-confidence.]
--You can dislike something that other people like.
--You can like something that other people dislike.
--Giving in to peer pressure is not always losing, nor is it always the right thing to do.
It's called taste or preference, and it is not homogenous.
I don't like Twilight. But that doesn't make you a loser in my eyes unless you're going to get up in my face about it and turn the whole thing into a competition.
Wheee~! :)
"@The Amazing Shenizan: WHY? Explain why it is awful and I should be ashamed of myself! EXPLAIN! I refuse to feel ashamed of myself until you EXPLAIN."
if you have any taste at all and you've read the novels you should know why
I haven't read the novels, but I have read detailed plot synopses and I can tell you that they are awful, listing all the reasons why would take too long
if you have any taste at all and you've read the novels you should know why
I haven't read the novels, but I have read detailed plot synopses and I can tell you that they are awful, listing all the reasons why would take too long
@youbetjanette: Thanks! About the books having entertainment value, I find it interesting how many of those who claim to hate it say "I read all four books and I hated them!" Really? If you hated it so much, why didn't you stop at one? I think a fair amount of people get the entertainment value, but can't admit that they might actually be enjoying it, so they claim they sat through like 2,000 pages that they "hated."
@The Amazing Shenazin: Saying "you should know why" is not an explanation. Besides, a lot of anime that I like would look like total crap if I read a plot summary of it. You're entitled to hate Twilight (and the article), you just haven't done anything to convince me that I should be ashamed of myself:).
@Nihon Freak: You continue to win Japanator:). I don't understand the whole win/lose approach either, and the reason why I'm interested in the hate for Twilight isn't so much because of the merits of Twilight (such as they are), it's the insecurity it reveals.
@The Amazing Shenazin: Saying "you should know why" is not an explanation. Besides, a lot of anime that I like would look like total crap if I read a plot summary of it. You're entitled to hate Twilight (and the article), you just haven't done anything to convince me that I should be ashamed of myself:).
@Nihon Freak: You continue to win Japanator:). I don't understand the whole win/lose approach either, and the reason why I'm interested in the hate for Twilight isn't so much because of the merits of Twilight (such as they are), it's the insecurity it reveals.
I read the series...I liked it...not amazed me at all...just for having fun but Harry Potter did amaze me.
The book I like the most is Twilight, why? because there is this kind of "suspense" from Bella cause she doesn't really know what Edward is...but...the other books were predictable...the 4th book was interesting at the beginning but the last chapters (book 3 Bella) was so dull...I really thought it would have a better ending.
Not to mention Meyer's poor writing..."perfect face" and "dazzle" appear over 9000 times!! :@
Guys...get over it...women will be talking about Twilight for the next years (yep...Robert Pattinson too)...let them dream for a while...let them enjoy it...it's just for fun ;)
The book I like the most is Twilight, why? because there is this kind of "suspense" from Bella cause she doesn't really know what Edward is...but...the other books were predictable...the 4th book was interesting at the beginning but the last chapters (book 3 Bella) was so dull...I really thought it would have a better ending.
Not to mention Meyer's poor writing..."perfect face" and "dazzle" appear over 9000 times!! :@
Guys...get over it...women will be talking about Twilight for the next years (yep...Robert Pattinson too)...let them dream for a while...let them enjoy it...it's just for fun ;)
Some just have to follow the herd! Vampires are just so yesterday!
Today, now, it is Super Croc Warriors who don't just suck the blood but eat the whole person. It's true! These man eating crocodiles prowl the back streets of Bangkok searching their next meal.
Super Croc Warriors
THE ONLY HOPE FOR WILDLIFE SPECIES SURVIVAL
Don’t be scared you can only be eaten once!
http://crocwarriors.com/
Today, now, it is Super Croc Warriors who don't just suck the blood but eat the whole person. It's true! These man eating crocodiles prowl the back streets of Bangkok searching their next meal.
Super Croc Warriors
THE ONLY HOPE FOR WILDLIFE SPECIES SURVIVAL
Don’t be scared you can only be eaten once!
http://crocwarriors.com/
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