UC Universe is the best universe.

I never really saw the possibility and feasibility of using and manufacturing giant human shaped robots other than the psychological effect of it being frickin huge and scary to puny humans.

Like how scary is 60 foot robot piloted by a scrawny, whiny teenage boy?

Very much.

Redzie, think of it this way, would you rather face an adult with a gun, or a whiny teenage boy?

Ill take an adult with a gun. Cause I know that I have the possibility of actually reasoning with that adult.

Is their a single engineer here other than me?

For my English 102 class this year I wrote about how robots are metaphorical self images of humans. One of the points I made was in discussing "legged-locomotion" and through my research found that over 70% of the earth's landmass is insurmountable for any wheeled vehicle. Not only is most of that traversable for us, but research has shown that in terms of energy efficiency, legged-locomotion are just as efficient as wheels, HOWEVER, the problem has been until now that there wasn't an efficient enough control and guidance system small enough or capable enough to make it worthwhile (it wasn't until 1982 that the first dynamically balancing biped that used a computer was developed). Nowadays though (let alone the future), we have computers so small and powerful you could run the necessary guidance systems off of a pair of AAAs in something as small as a pack of gum.

The versatility, ability to change directions of a dime (by comparison to wheeled vehicles- wheels can't zig zag very easily), and the dynamic range of motion, there's no reason legged vehicles wouldn't be used in the military or space.

The real question isn't whether legged vehicles will be used for combat in the future on a wide scale, the issue is how big they'll be. As much as I wish they would be, they probably won't be 60ft tall (if a 60ft tall block weighing 32tons could move 60ft/s - a slow jog - with perfect energy efficiency, it'd take around 3MW of energy to power it). They'll probably be something like the landmates from Appleseed or MAYBE at most the size of Arm Slaves (~25-30ft standing). And to be honest I'd be happy with even that.

by the way, the two sources I used in my paper for discussing the points on legged locomotion were:

Machines That Walk: The Adaptive Suspension Vehicle by Shin-Min Song and Kenneth J. Waldron

and

Flesh and Machines by Rodney A. Brooks

Of course it would start as small humanoid bipedal mechs. But then countries would begin to start trying to out do each other making bigger better mechs all the time until all of the sudden we're mass producing 60 story tall machines of death for no real reason other than to prove: WE'RE BETTER!

Heero, good show, good show indeed. I agree in that wheeled vehicles are limited in functionality, actually, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Landmates would be awesome, wouldn't they?

I however think that as technology progresses, we may just be able to create a source of power sufficient enough to pilot 60ft Gundams. I'm sure I myself, and all of the other commentators included, will probably be dead by the time that happens, but I keep my optimism in technological advancement.

Continued: This especially holds true for military technology, the fastest advancing kind of technology.

Mecha will exist in our future. Here is my proof: http://youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

Even if we come up with a fuel/energy source sufficient to power mechs of that size and, well, power, what about the cost of making them, much less maintaining them after multiple battles in space? And what about therapy bills for whiny teenage pilots? Just give adults body armor and lasers.

Actually, its not just the power source that makes mechs impossible. A 60ft tall robot would be crushed under its own weight. It would also crush any roads or unsteady ground.

Also, they're just not cost affective. In giant robot anime you always see missiles bounce off mechs as if explosive technology stood still while 60ft war machines and laser swords poped up over night.

"A 60ft tall robot would be crushed under its own weight. It would also crush any roads or unsteady ground."

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

The unsteady ground part, maybe, but any type of alloy with a higher impact tolerance than iron should be plenty capable of supporting well over 80 tons of material above it at the most stressed areas, and that's a VERY LOW calculation considering simple sky-scraper building materials support several times that on a daily unstopping basis.

As for cost and maintenance, I don't think you guys realize just how much we spend to build a single B2 bomber - 2 Billion dollars each. Not kidding. Look it up. Compare that to even the ridiculously over-bloated price that that Japanese Science foundation whatever came up with way back (around 800 million if I remember correctly) then you'll find that this isn't that impractical at all, ESPECIALLY when you consider one of these could replace an entire Tank battalion, which with 3 sergeants pay per tank saved, could easily pay for ammunition and you could operate on about half of the same support crew.

I've spent hundreds of hours thinking over all kinds of possible issues, so I'm ready for any questions.

Okay, Mr. Smart Guy - and I mean that - how would one of these things be cheaper than a B2 bomber? I is not engineer, and while I realize alloys, computer stuff, etc. and size do not necessarily translate easily into bigger = more monies, I'd like to know how 800 million would make a functional mech, not allowing too much for technology making everything that much cheaper and/or easier within the next couple of decades.

If you're assuming the mechs should be able to run then the knee and ankle joints need to support at least twice
the weight. Each joint needs to support the weight so you.

Also, the reason the B2 is said to be 2 billion to make is because of how much the R&D cost. A mech would most certainly cost at least that much to design.

But I'm not saying it isn't possible. Some day it will be. I just don't think it will ever be cost effective. With current air and sea fleets the US already has strike anywhere capability so a bipedal tank is a bit unnecessary.

Teaching a giant brick to fly with no aerodynamic properties whatsoever all while making it invisible to the electronic world. That's the B2 program in a nutshell, so yes, the R&D for it was insanely expensive. This concept however already has at least 3/4 of the tech made already that it needs. The only considerable thing left is making a more fuel efficient power source (though it's not required). Other than that, designing such a mechanism with the same full-dynamic range movement of the human leg is easy, heck, they have a 4ft working demo one in the mathematics lab near where I took my EF recitations on campus.

My point is R&D for this would be nothing compared to the B2. As for stress on each joint, torque is found by (force)*(radius of motion)*(sin(angle)). Considering the force is primarily Y-axis that we're talking about (gravity), then most of the weight on the legs may be at the ankle, BUT you don't need a motor to push all of that. The majority of motor power would have to be in the knee and hip (it's even how the human body works) in order to get the best efficiency. As for saying it would crush itself, I said before most alloys can easily support over 80 tons of compression/tension force (meaning so long as you don't buckle it it should be fine), and even a high weight estimate for a full size mech has come out to around 55 tons including sea wolf missiles, custom designed rail cannon (primary hand-held weapon based off of trimaran naval ship concept versions), power and ammo unit for the rail cannon, and a number of smaller less-weight-significant defense systems.

I can't speak for all of the individual weapon systems price-wise since I don't think the government would care to tell someone like me how much an Aegis's VLS costs, but estimating around a friendly 500 million seems very fair considering the price of comparable missile systems in jet aircraft. The mech itself however, if you really want a good bloated estimate, check http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/01/725000000-gundam/

^For about 50 million more you could probably toss in the labor costs to build it and switch out the diesel power for fuel cells (more power and fuel efficient for the size). Not to mention the whole thing I said earlier about how you don't need a super-expensive experimental prototype computer system to run this...we don't need Cortana or Al (FMP) telling us what to do yet.

Lastly, at JayD's comment "With current air and sea fleets the US already has strike anywhere capability so a bipedal tank is a bit unnecessary." I just want to say this. Yes right now we probably don't need it and it'd be pricey, BUT......we're not talking about a bipedal tank here. We're talking about something the size of a skyscraper decked to the teeth with armor and guns. Forget tank, more like bipedal battleship (which would be quite accurate considering the types of weapons you could mount on it), and the uses for that....well, lets just say the army's phrase "Army of One" is very fitting.

i love you heero

Thank you. I like you too Len.

Do you do parties, too? :D

Well that depends, if there's cute Asian girls or if there's LAN cables and pixel-pipelines then I'm there!

(lol, sorta jking about the asian thing)

Hi so I just found this site/specific forum while looking up the Gundam International society and in response to Heero I wanted to post this
http://www.gizmag.com/robot-suit-hal/11471/picture/76318/
this is the HAL suit by cyberdyne. it augments human strength 10 times and is designed to help people who can't move and factory workers lift heavy objects. the suit is about 5000$-10000$ to buy.this means that it must be pretty cheap to produce. What made this technology so progressive and why it took so long to develop is that it has the in built computers that react to the natural muscle movements. Has anyone seen the Animatrix? in the second renasance(sp) part 2 they were fighting the machines with exoskeleton mechs similar to gundams but not nearly as tall(appoximatly 15 ft).Those were set up as full body suits as opposed to the controls being in a control room like the Gundams with joysticks. I think that is where the technology is progressing and the HAL suit emphasizes that development. the US military has also been doing R & D but the HAL suit blows them away.Haha capitalism :D
The HAL suit isnt designed for fighting as it is quite exposed but it seems from an engineering standpoint that mimicing and expanding on this technology will lead quite possibly in our lifetime to feasible battle mechs.
I agree here with someone who said nations will probably make bigger ones just to show off muscle and as Heero said money is not an issue for military spending.

I am curious tho as to whether the control system will be like the HAL where its a mech suit or like an airplane cockpit as seen in the shows.

p.s. Troa Barton has always been my monicker and since i mispelled it no one will ever take it mwuhahahaha

also I am curious about the affect on the pilots as is adressed in the show Gundam Wing and also Innocent Venus. When Zechs uses the Talgeese he realizes it takes a special pilot because the system is designed as an army of one, taking in all the data and calculating the outcome. the pilot must be willing to sacrifice life for victory. In innocent venus they talk about how the systems works and that only special people can pilot it and the main peoples have the system hardwired into them, but as i said the HAL computer system has made that unecesary. I dont see finding special pilots as the U.S. Air Force is already pretty picky about who they choose as pilots.

from an engineering standpoint would the stabalizers they use in shuttles and training be enough to handle the full possibilities of gundams? like in the show they are strapped down pretty tight but with the assualut they would take from assumably large scale armies I cant imagine how one would survive the whiplash.

ooorr would it mean that we would pilot mechs remotely? we already have that technology working and it would seem alot safer for the pilots if we make mechs like the Talgeese and Gundams.

i agree with everything that is said yes a mech of this magnitude is possible using the stated materials and tech...but in all reality what everyone forgets is.... that even if its a mech it'll never be a "gundam"...since the fact of its name comes from an alloy called gundanium witch as u should know...there is no such thing.... but yes a mech an over all mech with the build and possibilities of a gundam in my educated opinion is possible.

About the power source as Kageryu mentioned...I am wondering if the nuclear core of Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice Gundams are totally feasible or will it take time to think how to arm Gundam with nuclear core as the power plant. But I do believe in the future there will be Gundams and 60 ft tall mobile suits that will replace tanks and jet fighters as the main weapons of war. I hope and pray to any celestial being out there that there will be no remote controlling of any mobile suit like OZ had. War is meaningless if nobody fights and dies in them...the zero sum game pisses me off.

Heero, yes, there is. For my graphics in engineering, I designed a fully functional prototype, including flight capabilities and armaments. Took me 300+ hours out of class to design:)

I believe that one day it will be possible to make giant robots. I do hope they will not be used for war cause I mean really do we need another war. But its like I always say as long as there are people, religion, and politics there will be war. So I am sure if we do make giant robots they will be made for war too among other things. I also believe that our giant robots will work as well as the gundams do.

I mean sure right now it is not going to happen why cause we just have not figured it all out yet. Yea the idea of a giant robot flying around does sound impossible but if you think about it physics says a bee should not fly ether and yet it does so why can't we find a way to make a giant robot fly. We are making new things everyday or finding out new things every day so who is to say one guy some where does not find out how to make a giant robot that looks, walks, fights, and fly's just like a gundam well maybe not just one guy it may be a group of people still same idea applies. If there was a gundam made what type of person do you all think it would take to fly it or rather operate it cause as we have seen in the shows it seems anybody can just jump in it read the manual and off they go. But we all know it can't be that easy I mean in gundam wing all the pilots of the gundams were kids but they were trained from a very young age to get ready to operate them in fact after all there training alot of people that look at there pilot data said its reading they are not human so that tells you it takes some sort of training or skill to run a gundam.

Don't get me wrong if I was given the chance to run a gundam I would even it was only one time. I also have seen that people that have not had any training can just hop in and run them but most of them were what the anime calls Newtypes now I am not saying that some where down the line in human evolution we change into something like Newtypes and work better than a normal human. But I don't think that a person evolved in mind and in body could still just jump in something and run it just fine. I have also seen little kids that look like they are no older than 13 and no younger than 10 jumping in gundams and running them and these kids are not newtypes just human so again its trying to say you don't need any formal training or skill to run a gundam. Then we got G-gundam which has normal humans that have true fighting skill running gundams which I guess based off the way you run it in G-Gundam. It must not take to much skill cause it moves the same way you do the hard part is just getting the battle suit on then you just walk or run and the gundam does what you do.

But again in short what kind of person do you think it would take to run a gundam and sorry for any run on sentences.

I also like to add something koitenshi you said that all gundams are made from gundanium which is not true. The only gundam series that comes out and say they are made of gundanium is Gundam Wing. Other's like G-Gundam, Gundam Seed, and the original Gundam never said it was made out of gundanium they said it was made out of other real life materials. So if a giant robot was made it can have the name Gundam as long as they can get the permission to use the name gundam that is.

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