All i need to say is...

Spinning Burst Punch!

I dont think ANYTHING can beat that... and if it can... Lagann will drill through it. No need to break any cables.... knock them out of space/time

we are talking about regular gurren lagann here, none of his upgrades

Gurren Laggan FTW

oh and i really like that picture...
in fact, right-click-save-image-as...

Are we forgetting "Spirit of a Man's Soul Cannonball Attack" or "This is going to leave a mark punch"?

TwoThree things:

1. I'll vote for Lagann, because I don't see Shinji able to summon enough Manly Spirit to defeat either Kamina or Simon.

2. Is there a bigger size of that picture?

3. Are you aware that none of the tinyurl links through your Twitter account work?

Evangelion and Eva Unit 01 practically stole my giant robot Anime virginity.

I know Eva Unit 01 could stand up to Gurren Lagann! Don't believe in yourself, Shinji! Believe in me, who believes in you!

OMG!!

After all we could consider the AT field, the line that separate all of the individual souls from each other, like a particular form of the Spiral Energy.

Reasoning this way, we could either consider that the AT Field is the "container" of the spiral energy, even thinking at the anti-spiral's form (a blurry and anonimous humanoid)..

A AT Field-like generator could be even the shield used to destroy and containing the anti-spiral invasion machines, as we could see in the earlier episodes of the second series of TTGL..

At this point i believe that EVA-01 and Gurren Lagann are like Viral and Kamina: at the same level of power and charisma (but Kamina is waaaay cool, indeed ^^).

1 point to both (i love them all \^o^/ )

gurren lagann, no contest.

eva is epic, but GL is universe breaking epic

Eva 01 has a soul and is designed to exist FOREVER (as proof of humanities existence).
Gurren Lagann is the epic combination with manliness/brotherhood.
Evangelion 01 gets my vote BUT what would really happen is that Kamina would talk sense into Shinji and together they'd destroy Gendo.

Here is the full image http://twitpic.com/180a9/full

That was wonderful Commander P5. I was waiting for someone to bust out the SCIENCE.

AT Fields? 0% chance of breaking through it?

MORE LIKE 100%.

Gurren Lagann wins, HANDS DOWN.

Lagann. Coz Shinji wound't have enough manly spirit to even stand on the field and look Kamina in to eyes...

Oh guh this is a toughie...

...

*tears hair out* AHH! I'll choose Gurren Lagann.

Gurren Lagann, easily.

Besides the fact that future Simon can pierce through time and space with Gurren Lagann in the future, but even if the fight dragged on and Gurren Lagann got worn down, I see the fight ending with a Lagann Impact!

Not even the spawn of an angel can prevent Simon from piercing the heavens!

most epic debate yet! even though I could see Kamina pinning Eva 01 down and jumping into the entry plug to tell Shinji to grit his teeth I still have to give it to Eva just b/c of what Zeouterlimits said in that Eva will ALWAYS exist to be testament that humanity existed.

Simon's drill is the drill that will pierce the heavens. I think the AT field is kind of close to that, so consider it pierced.

Even if Eva 01 breaks off of its power cable and goes berserk, it's power is no match for the raw spiral energy Simon can put into Gurren Lagann. Plus, contrary to the pic, the scale of Eva over Gurren Lagann is pretty off. Eva would just be a big target, and just like Teppelin, it will fall.

Epic image, Gurren Lagann ftw!

Between those 2? Gurren Lagann hands down. However if Megas stepped in Coop would beat the crap out of everbody.

Really len? Why even ask? Gurren Lagann.

Gurren Lagann is all about breaking down the impossiblities before it so I just don't see anything that EVA unit 01 could muster to stop Gurren Lagann.

Simon's drill is the drill that will pierce the heavens. Shinji could never summon the manly soul required to overcome Simon and Kamina. Even if there's a 0% chance of winning, Gurren Lagann will turn it into 100%!!!

Lol, too bad Gurren Lagann isn't as big as Eva like in that image. To be the same size, it'd have to be Arc Gurren Lagann...but then it would be a default victory for Simon as he punches Eva into another dimension.

gurren lagann!!!
ofcourse

Thank you, GOD!

Both for the greetings and the Picture (EPIC!!)..

I love both NGE and TTGL nearly to the obsession (that is unhealty, hehe ^^), and this debate will pierce my nights with nightmares where NIA will become the Angel of Death (like REI in The End Of Evangelion), fighthing against the Arc Gurren for the freedom of all sentient beings (with optimus prime on the background °-°)..

Or all of this GOD-ness must be named a TRUE DREAM?!


p.s. I was attempted to continue with the scientific background comparation between NGE and TTGL, but honestly i have some difficulties to write in english (i'm italian ^^), and i need a lot of time to formulate an understandable sentence, besides the fact that i'm going OT ^^

[quote]Plus, contrary to the pic, the scale of Eva over Gurren Lagann is pretty off. Eva would just be a big target, and just like Teppelin, it will fall.[/quote]

Actually, the Evangelion serious is notorious for fudging the scale of their mecha for dramatic effect

GL would win as it follows no laws of physics and instead can do anything so long as it looks awesome. I prefer eva, but let's face it, when your opponent runs on gar you're pretty screwed.

Unit 01 needs electricity to run. And once you unplug that umbilical cable, the Eva only has like, 5 minutes to go. But Shinji being Shinji, the most badass man of all time, is able to work that mother going berserker.
But Gurren Lagann runs purely on badassery.
Even considering Unit 01's menopause berserkery, I'm going with Gurren Lagann here.

I'll side with Unit 01 because this is almost unfair. Really, what modern otaku (other than me and a handful of others) would vote for Eva over one of the hottest titles from the last couple years. How about we run a Gurren Lagann v. Mazinger next and see who wins. Or Gigantor for that matter.

Besides, everybody with brain knows the true most epic giant robot battle would always be won by Giant Robo.

I'll side with Unit 01 because this is unfair. Really, what modern otaku (other than me and a handful of others) would vote for Eva over one of the hottest titles from the last couple years. How about we run a Gurren Lagann v. Mazinger next and see who wins. Or Gigantor for that matter.

Besides, everybody with brain knows the true most epic giant robot battle would always be won by Giant Robo.

Upon seeing the manly spirit of Simon and/or Kamina, Shinji will realize just how much of a bitch he truly is. BUT since Unit 01 can basically use angst as an alternate source of fuel, Shinji's inferiority complex could actually be to his advantage.

I'll go with EVA, because it is, in fact, UR MOMS (literally).

Gurren Lagann! Who the hell do you think I am, Len? Really.

Commander P5, you make me want to dredge up my theory that Gurren Lagann, FLCL, and Eva are all actually part of the same universe. :P

I digress, I'll have to go with Gurren Lagann. Manly spirit overcomes all!

Gurren Lagann will pierce the heavens!

They had this same discussion on /a/ just days ago, picture included. I'm not trying to say you stole the idea, but I AM gonna have to quote the post that won the discussion for me back then. The setup:

[quote]We had this discussion in /m/ a while back. Gurren Lagann wins.

Even if Eva has S2 engine, GL has infinite energy anyways. Eva-01 only has AT field and punching/kicking/biting. Drill goes through AT field, Eva dies.

We then went on to discuss who WOULD be a match for GL. And decided on Shin-Getter I think.[/quote]

And here it is:

[quote]/m/ sucks. They obviously don't understand the AT Field the way we do. Only the full timers on /a/ can understand the aura of pure social anxiety that completely separates us from everyone and everything else in this world. Only true love, or the Lance of Longinus, can break through.[/quote]

BANG.

Also Niko, no matter how much I like your post, the AT Field like heaven? Oh god no.

Hey, I though quote-tags, worked on this site...

@roody, yes N.O. , AT fields , and spiral energy in fact ARE related, that would be pure awesome here.

I've gotta say Gurren Lagann, I don't care how classic NGE is as an anime, Shinji doesn't instill hope in me, and Simon + Kamina each run on hope, as well as GL, besides, Shinji would be too busy fapping to an unconscious Yoko if they used that as a secret weapon.
Either way, Gurren Lagann wins, just like it wins in my heart.

lol srsly? Any debate with the lagann crew is severely skewed IMO

Lagann FTW

Gurren Lagann: willpower beats any power source

I don't know how everyone is voting for Gurren Lagann. The only thing that can break an AT Field is another AT Field. That's the trump card right there.

And if he DOES bust through.. Shinji is just going to pass out like he always goes, and Unit 01 will go berserk.. and then it's really on!

Eva all the way.

i dislike both these overrated series, but EVA 01

Gurren Lagann, no contest.

Gurrenn, F T W

PBz0r, inspired by it, to say the least

Gurren Lagann of course

Eva is powered by the soul of Shinji's dead mom

Gurren Lagann is powered by pure GAR

Therefore, Gurren Lagann wins.

Big O!

I see this not as a contest over who has the most power (Gurren, obviously) but as a fight between two of the quintessences of Man, Hope vs Love (Gurren vs Eva). Will Kamina's great zeal be able strike through the combined forces of Shinji's individuality and Yui's maternal devotion? Eva fans know what I am talking about. What will happen when the man-fueled mech clashes with the woman-driven bioroid? In terms of manliness, Kamina cannot be beat; but what if he was up against a different force, one known for being the one great weakness of men? That great destroyer of the masculine, femininity, would be the only proper counter to Lagann's virility. And by femininity, I mean a creative use of AT Fields and whatever other properties of Lilith's children I haven't mentioned. Yin struggling against Yang.

This analogy is probably flawed, but it's the only thing I could come up with. I also spent an inappropriate amount of time on it.

For all practical purposes, Eva needs the S2 engine. It wouldn't be fair, otherwise. Also, the AT Field doesn't get enough credit. It isn't made of pocky, you know. Everyone posts like it can broken with a mean look.

I vote for Eva, because I feel like it.

I would have to say the Gurren Laggan.

Holy Hell, I had no idea my post was going to be that
big. Sorry everybody, I just kept on going with my train of thought...

GURREN LAGANN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I literally lol'd when I read the headline. Like, why even bother asking this? Than I saw the picture and thought thats a pretty good fucking reason to ask. Still, I don't see EVA 01 walking away from this battle, at all.

Gurren Lagann.

PS: I should really watch EVA again sometime.

I'm going to base this of the power supply. EVA must be plugged in in order to operate or it will run out of power fast. However the Gurren Lagann run on spiral energy which is endless and ever evolving. If the Gurren Lagann started to lose it would change in a way in order to defeat EVA.

Gurren Lagann all the way.

I'm a long time Eva fan, but there's no way one can deny the truth.

Gurren Lagann, all day every day.

the lagann win a fight over eva? no. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann though thats another story

I haven't seen so much BS'ed science being tossed around in an argument since the forum debates on gendou over whether Wing Zero or the Freedom would win (Wing Zero won, after a lot of pouting from the Seed junkies trying to make up stuff about Kira and the Freedom about as quickly as girls wrote yaoi fanfiction for Wing).

In any case, let me open by handling this in a more organized manner than so far. Every mecha vs. mecha debate I've ever been in has worked best whenever a point by point analysis is done, and since no one's done one yet, I'll use a simple one with the categories of: weaponry, power source, pilot, and defense. There's a bunch of other external factors you COULD go on about, but since those are pretty one-sided we'll stick to the simple categories so there's no doubt on who would win.

Weaponry:

Evangelion - (Particle Beam rifle?), Pellet Rifle, (Lance of Longinus?), and the Progressive Knife

Gurren Lagann: (the little pistol thing when the anti-spirals first show up?), and as many drills popping out of it's body as the pilot can imagine.

-- Winner: It really depends upon whether we're including the Lance of Longinus, since seeing GL's ability to store energy on the tip of it's drill pretty much negates the Particle Beam rifle and don't even try to analyze the progressive knife's or pellet gun's effectiveness...
Until we're given specifics on whether EVA has it or not, we'll call it a draw.

Power Source:

Evangelion: Runs off an umbilical cable power source, but if you count the S2 engine, can theoretically run forever.

Gurren Lagann: Runs off the pure will of the pilots wanting to kick ass, with the mech featuring special enhanced capabilities when more power is properly applied.

-- Winner: Gurren Lagann gets more drills, etc., when powered up even further than normal, but both have pretty much limitless power if necessary. GL may be dependent on the pilot not starving to death to function, but then again, the other pilot would probably starve at the same rate, and considering shinji, he'd probably croak first if it got to be THAT long.

Pilots:

Evangelion: A kid who was randomly picked off the street and tossed into a mech with virtually no training initially, and he has a tendency to whine and go psycho a lot. No special skills. The mech itself has a sort of berserker ability though, which greatly increases reaction, agility, and power parameters, though it's still a wild animal, and thus could probably be tricked easily if necessary.

Gurren Lagann: (Kamina? or just Simon?) Both of the original main pilots ENJOY piloting giant robots, though neither originally had any prior experience to piloting this one, nor did they ever get any formal training, but apparently they learned pretty quickly. Also, both have been able to come back from some of the most extreme conditions of odds stacked against them, even blasting through situations that are obviously traps, so trying to trick them is a pointless effort.

-- Winner: Gurren Lagann. Usually people who enjoy their job will perform better than those who don't.

Defense:

Evangelion: The Evangelion has 22 layers of reinforced armor plating, and the Zettai Ryouiki (lit. "Absolute Territory") field which has been localized to Absolute Terror field. The EVA has one weakpoint other than the cockpit however, it's red "core", where if it were cracked, the EVA unit would most likely die instantaneously.

Gurren Lagann: The Gurren Lagann's official technical specs in this regard are pretty much non-existant. What we do know is it has for the most part, typical metal armor plating, capable of taking a fair amount of punishment without getting too ridiculous. No known specific weakspots other than the cockpit(s).

--Winner: EVA seems like it may have an AT field, but it's core seems like a prime target to a puncture type weapon such as a drill. Although there's no way to prove it thanks to the applied phlebotinum known as the AT field and spiral energy, it may be possible to break down the AT field using their own sort of AT field from their willpower?? In any case, what we do know is that if worst comes to worst, the Giga Drill more than likely has plenty of excess power to puncture the AT field in the worst case scenario, but to be fair, the Evangelion could probably do a fair amount of damage in the meantime. The main issue is that although both mechs can seemingly self repair to some degree on the spot, the GL's attacks seem to be of the one-hit KO type, leaving little room to use any repair function, and the EVA seems to mostly rely on wait-and-overpower-in-time attacks, leaving a little more leeway to the GL.

So, that makes 1 tie, and 3 (subjective) wins, in favor of the Gurren Lagann. There's no true way to compare the two, especially since one is clearly Super robot genre and the other is moreso realistic robot genre (hey wait a second, shouldn't it be obvious who would win from just THAT?!?!), but the Gurren Lagann seems to have things heavily in his favor.

I love Lagann and all, but Eva Unit 01 is cooler too me in looks and other things. Also, beserk mode is always fun.

GIIIIGAAAA DORIIIIRUUUUUU BUUUUREEEEEEKAAAAAAAAAAA
ftw.

Also, Heero, you would.
And ive grown to appreciate it.

eva forsurez

If you remember, AT fields are strong enough to withstand nukes....and berserked eva destroyed zerul's AT field with a flick of his wrist. Once eva goes berserk it'd be the end of the battle.

Gurren Lagann, they change 0% into 100% victory. Along with other previously stats reasons.

*sigh* As much as I'm an EVA fan, I can't deny the power of the Gurren, but without specifics, I would really vote for a draw here. Of course if I include the final version of the Gurren here (y'know, that universe-sized(?) one whose pinky is bigger than a galaxy, and can basically alter reality), then Gurren hands down. So.......I'd vote for Gurren Lagann simply because I like its design much better. 0.o

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but are we talking about Gurren Lagann WITH or without the flight pack? because you know, being able to fly up and just shoot down on the EVA while it's berserk might be an important point...

Also, can the EVA float?
I'll agree with a few of the other commenters in saying that unit 01 will always have a place in my little otaku heart(how many days can one person obsess about the ending to End of Eva), but in reality Kamina's ultra gar-ness will out do Shinji's emo-ness anyday. If the ace pilots of Zeon have taught us anything; it's all about the pilot, not the machine.

Gurren Lagann takes all. You do not collect five hundred dollar.

EVA no contest!

going berserk has got nothing on doing the impossible.
you're asking me if whiny emo kid can beat the two manliest men ever in the history of histories?

you insult my intelligence

Gurren Lagann is ALWAYS victorious.

Even though i hated the evangelion, i'd still go for the Eva unit!

All I have to say is,

...Giga...Drill...BREAKER!!!

I was gonna write this essay on which was going to win, but Heero Yuy kinda beat me to it.

My vote is for Gurren Lagann.

Gurren Lagann hands down.

In terms of power...well, Gurren Laggan is the winner hands down. Eva 01 wasn't created to fight the whole universe.

Yes. But...

Most of the times Gurren Laggan needs to take control of the enemy's mecha to save the day...and this is not something that you can just do on a 'human being' as EVA 01 is under the armor.

Actually...Gurran Laggan is pretty much powerless unless it starts evolving by absorbing cities, moons and blah...

In terms of defense...Gurren Laggan's only defense is its attack. Kamina died very easily since every mecha from that series is, until further evolutions, very weak.

Eva 01 is also kinda...short of attack resources...proggresive knife...blahcannon...etc...anyway I DO believe that this limited attack force is enough to take down Gurren Laggan. Maybe this is not enough to defeat it and there's nothing EVA 01 can do with a knife against a full metal mecha (not meat-like like the Angels).

This being said I think it all depends on what level of evolution of Gurren Laggan fights EVA 01. I do strongly believe that any form of the Gurren Laggan from the first part of the series can be defeated by EVA 01 since Gurren has no way to really harm it/him

I agree with Pres. Stalin, this was decided before the question was even asked. I throw my vote to Giant Robo because that show is truly the definition of epic.

Too much logical thinking going on in here. That makes Kamina sad.

GL, but only by a hair.

well.. gurren lagann can form into the tengen toppa gurren lagann ... which is bigger than a galaxy.. so it could crush eva 01.. and the milkyway at the same time.
so .. gurren i suppose wins. D:

Gurren Lagann. For every contest (aside from the Kyonko one) ever again. Seriously, we should just give Simon and Kamina lifetime achievement trophies in the Otaku Debates, and leave them out of the runner-up competitions from here on.

Fuck-awesome pic, though. Saved, and made into my desktop.

Ummmm Gurren Laggan > all mechs ever. Thusly Gurren Laggan > Eva.

If I'm not mistaken at the end of Gurren Lagann they somehow figure out probability altering attacks. Not to mention Shinji's a pussy compared to Kamina or Simon. Yeah, Eva Unit 01 is crazy strong and is downright terrifying when going berserk, but it wouldn't have a chance in hell against Gurren Lagann.

Gurren Lagann wins!!!
thats the mecha that taught the world how to be men....what could possibly stop that?

Great choice of a picture. It looks like they're going to kiss which will only lead into mecha mate-ing. Won't it?

PS - Unit 01 wins in my book. It's key to the... spoiler alert.

Most people are disregarding the fact that Gurren Lagann has not been upgraded in any regard for this. That means no absorbing spaceships, moons, or becoming galaxy-sized. If it were Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, then I'd say it was an even fight. But Eva Unit 01 is the apocalypse. If that's the case, then I think that beats Gurren Lagann.

Gurren Lagann can just pull a Lagann and control Eva01.

Lagann is omnipowered.

The point Heero Yuy made about the type of robots they are (Super Robot vs Realistic Robot) makes me think its a bit unfair to pit Gurren Lagann against the Eva01. So I suppose it would be a fair fight if he didn't use any of the spiral energy that greatly exaggerates his attacks.
lol what's cool about this debate is that it reminds me of what I have on my desk at home. I have the Revoltech Lazengann blocking a kick from the Revoltech Eva-02 :)

Gurren Lagann, no contest.

Points thus far regarding GL's lack of upgrades miss the point: canonically, the power of GL's drill is dependent not on the machine itself, but the Spiral Power of its pilot. Simon's Lagann overpowered Genome's Lazengan because Simon had greater Spiral power than Genome at the time of the contest.

It is demonstrated in Evangelion 6 that AT Fields are breachable given a sufficient amount of energy. The absolute threshold of an AT Field is demonstrated in Evangelion episode 6 to be rather less than the total energy output of a large city. Simon's Spiral Power far exceeds that, being theoretically capable of destroying the entire universe.

And even if you don't consider the huge disparity in power, the GL can fly. Eva-01 can't. The GL can travel through space and time. Eva-01 can't. The GL doesn't rely on an external power source. The Eva-01 does.

@Necros - And so is Spiral Power. It's canonically an energy power strong enough to accomplish _anything_ - space-time manipulation, mass resurrection, and ultimately, universe destruction. The only difference is that Eva-01's apocalyptic abilities are situational, and reliant on factors outside of Eva-01's control, whereas GL's universe destruction ability is not.

@Porcellino, Pbz0r and every other person insisting that the Eva-01's AT Field is only negatable via the Lance of Longinus and/or another AT Field: This is complete, total nonsense. Ramiel's AT Field is easily punctured by a positron-rifle hotwired to the combined energy of Tokyo-3 - even in Evangelion canon, there are ways around the AT Fields that do not require AT Fields. The Evangelion cast simply do not possess the required technology to do so on an ongoing basis.

@ogrebattle - Eva-01 destroyed Zeruel's AT Field because it had one of its own. AT Fields neutralise other AT Fields - it had nothing to do with Eva-01's power.

This is really off topic, but was the Round 15 winner of the December contest announced?

eva !!!

Gurren Lagann. Eva would be at the bottom of the super robot barrel, and there'd be a fair few real robots that'd trump it as well.

Gurren Lagann!!!

Gurren Lagann !.... no further comments ^^

@ShadesOfSolomon, what you say is partially true. AT fields do neutralise other AT fields but last time i checked they didnt also harm the angel. The attack not only destroyed Zerul's At field but also did alot of damage to zerul himself. Also, why is it so hard to believe that eva had some power of its own? All the other angels had big lasers. If you remember the big diamond dude, had enough power to destroy AT fields too.

And since, you guys are getting so technical, here something to think about: humans are composed of LCL, we only have forms b/c the AT fields. If the AT fields were neutralized, they'd revert back to LCL, as seen in the movie. Heres an example of how it could go: eva 01 ABSOLUTE TERROR field > puny human haf robut wit no at field= puny human become LCL = LCL spill in da cockpit o noz! and no wun dere to pilot da robut= eva eat it= beserked eva with spiral powerz

@Ogrebattle: at least call it an absolute territory field like the real translation... absolute terror field? come on...that sounds so unprofessional...

@ogrebattle: Why is it so hard to believe? Because there's no evidence that that would be the case - it's pure conjecture on your part. It's like me saying 'Spiral Power is able to do anything, why is it so hard to believe that Simon couldn't create an AT Field with Gurren Lagann?' Or, 'Eva-01 can spit acid because an angel could spit acid' for that matter. It's nonsense. If we don't see a power manifested, we can't assume it exists.

I rewatched the Zeruel fight. There is no evidence that Eva Unit-01 harmed anything other than Zeruel's arm in the incident that you mentioned. Zeruel sent its arm towards Eva-01, and Eva-01 counter by clawing at it. The subsequent shot of Zeruel, prior to Eva-01 eating it, shows its body and head intact. Only its arm has been damaged.

What exactly was the point you were trying to make with this?

Regarding your point about the AT Fields - this is absolute nonsense. The massive anti-AT Field manifested in the End of Evangelion was not generated by Eva-01, and there is nothing to suggest that the Evangelion would be capable of reproducing the feat. If it could, there would presumably be no need for Lilith at all.

@ogrebattle - Further to our previous discussion regarding the Eva-01's supposed power, comparing its punching power to that of a nuclear blast is really quite laughable considering that it couldn't break Sachiel's core with several two-handed strikes. Subsequent Angels' cores are easily destroyed by progressive knife strikes or even by gunfire.

Face it, people - Evangelion was never intended to be a giant robot anime in the archetypal super robot OR real robot mould, and Eva-01 was never intended to be a particularly powerful robot. Its sole 'power' lies in its manipulation of the AT Field, the compromising of which leaves it drastically underpowered compared to its contemporaries.

The Ideon and the Shin-Getta have long been held to be the pinnacle of super robot power, and the Gurren Lagann's Spiral Energy is on a level similar to the Ide and Getta radiation. The only two mecha that would realistically provide Gurren Lagann with any real competition would be those two.

Of course, Goku still trumps them all, with his I-can-fly-around-the-Earth-eleven-times-before-you-can-blink speed.

i suggest you watch it again but just incase i'll go over it. the fight went like this, zerul sends his arm towards eva, eva stops it with his buddha palm, eva brings Zerul up to his face and stared that mother fcuker down, Eva abortion kick Zerul like over 9000 feet away, Zerul does his arm thing again, but eva was like no im not taking this shizzle and does some claw thing (remember zerul is still far away), the claw thing breaks Zerul's arm and just be for Zerul falls if you look closely you'll see some big scars on his body and after he falls his blood splatters all over what used to be his At field. bam. The end. i are sorry my english not too gud.

IF i am not mistaken, Eva can corrode AT fields with his own. I never said it was anything like litith's anti-AT field thing. What i said was that humans with out an AT field would be just LCL.

As for the absolute terror thing, i just thought that that it fit a beserked eva better than absolute territory. Im sorry, i'll never do it again, having an opinion that is, please forgive me...and besides absolute territory reminds me of thigh meat..wtf right?

Eva would win. Unless Simon can break through the AT field and kill Shinji within 5 minutes, Eva will no longer be restrained and Simon will get raped. I think the battle would depend on how depressed/apathetic Shinji was that day.

Anyway, I vote Eva.

@ogrebattle - I just watched it again. There are no scars on Zeruel's body - the only part of him damaged was his arm. The only thing resembling a 'big scar' on Zeruel's body that I could see is the white marking that travels from his shoulder, through his core and around to his side.

Again, there are numerous instances in the anime that demonstrate the actual physical power of the Evangelions to be quite limited in comparison to other super robots. Eva-01 has trouble breaking Sachiel's core with its bare fists. Eva-00 has trouble breaking out of its storage room. There is absolutely no indication that any of the Evas have physical power approaching 'a nuclear bomb' and plenty to the contrary.

"IF i am not mistaken, Eva can corrode AT fields with his own. I never said it was anything like litith's anti-AT field thing. What i said was that humans with out an AT field would be just LCL."

Kensuke and Touji get caught up in the battle between Eva-01 and the Fourth Angel, and are not liquidized. Shinji is confronted by Zeruel when the Evangelion is out of power, and its AT Field is consequently inactive, and he is not liquidized. Asuka manipulates her AT Field in the End of Evangelion as an offensive weapon, but despite causing things to explode, does not liquidize anybody. There is absolutely no precedent inside of the series for what you are suggesting, and plenty to suggest otherwise.

Specifically, the AT Fields of the Evangelions and the Angels cancel one another out through the principle of destructive interference, which indicates that they have exactly the same range of wavelengths and the same phase differences. The AT Fields of humans are presumably different, since they do not produce the same barrier that the Evangelions and the Angels enjoy. The implications? The Evangelions and the Angels cannot neutralise the AT Fields of regular humans because their AT Fields are fundamentally different in nature.

@hiragii - There is no question that the GL would be able to breach an AT Field. N2 mines breach AT Fields. So, too, do sufficiently powerful energy beams. The GL possesses a power source capable of consuming the universe. There is no comparison.

Berserk Eva-01 being an ungodly powerful hand-to-hand fighter is also one of the most ridiculous myths in anime. The thing is involved in a grand total of 3 battles, and all of them are against opponents with remarkably limited agility (in Eva-03's case because it has its neck broken at the beginning of the fight). Its abilities - which, as far as we can see, consist of blindly rushing whatever's in front of it - are hardly impressive in the context of other super robot series. They aren't a patch on the Wing Zero's super human Zero System-assisted evasion, or the RahXephon's reality alteration, let alone something like the GL's universe destroying spiral energy, Shin Getta's Getta Radiation, or Ideon's Ideon Sword.

Guren lagan.

1. Shinji wouldnt b able 2 attack a real life pilot. He'd rather die, remember?

2. Guren Lagan can fly. Eva can't.

3. Eva runs out of power. Guren Lagan doesnt.

4. Simon is smarter than berserk Eva. Think trained fighter vs wild dog.

5. Simon is smarter than Shinji. Think trained fighter vs emo bitch.

look, waves can interact aslong as they are on the same medium. What is that medium? there is no way to tell.. Do you know why? It's because we are discussing an anime! shocker. You are trying bring some crazy RL science in to nge and that's just crazy. The only reasonable way to go about this is to look at the things the show gives you. They tell you that humans/ or lilims are marginally different from other angels. They tell you that AT fields can be neutralized or corroded by another one. They tell you that humans have AT fields. They tell you that without the AT fields Humans would become LCL. Now tell me, is it smart to label these "soul barriers" as AT fields if they are not? They also tell you that Angels and humans only slightly differ in dna structure, and that results in the different forms. This also affects the AT fields in that they all have different strengths but none of them have completely different energy types or operate on a different medium. So why would you think that humans have different ones?

The angels all have some sort of unique ability like giant lazers and such so why is it so unbelievable that the evas also have them? Im saying that what eva did to zerul is not some physical attack thing. Here : youtube.com/watch?v=ZECNg3MBBD0. look @ 1:26!
Its pretty plausible that the eva's would have unique powers (that the humans don't know of or know but sealed away) considering that they are clones of adam and lilith. coincidentally, ritsuko also talks about the bindings and unstoppable power in that clip above.

and we are not talking about TTGL!! we are talking about ordinary lagann combined with gurren aka gurren lagann!! reference post #2. The only time that GL ever warped time and space or anything was ep 8, and "the fly to rossiu" scene.

I don't recall GL ever breaking the universe. the idea that GL could breakthrough the AT field is what you would call a conjecture. REcall the tepplin incident. Why didn't GL just breakthrough the tornado barrier? i thought he could break teh universe.

alot of people are mentioning how gl can fly but it cant. it can only fly once it assimilates that flying ganman.

ps , i dont think there is anything wrong with eva's technique considering the hulk uses the same one and he's unbeatable.

and.. @ yesiamthecheese, i dont think you can use the motives as a reason...ex why would simon want to fight shinji in the first place?

EVA 01.

Face it ogre and everyone else too, analyzing the science in NGE is useless, and it's by far the more "realistic" robot genre series of the two.

Super Robots nearly always beat Realistic, purely because of the fundamental values between the two.

Breaking it down to "anime science" because that's about the only thing that applies to both series, lets look at it this way:

First lets see who the "good guy" of the two would be, because everyone knows that ultimately in the end, the good guy will win. Just comparing their backgrounds, GL seems a lot more likely to be good guy material than EVA....EVA is dark and mysterious, the result of basically a mad scientist (pretty much), and GL is a whack superweapon that says to hell with physics (unless it's a convenient plot point) while practically screaming to be the cool hero kind of machine. Hell, look at it this way, if you hadn't seen either of these shows and took a first glance at a random shot of either mech, which would YOU think looks more sinister? and let's not even get started on the pilots.....Shinji seems the type almost crazy enough to bomb his school...

In any case, by anime physics laws, the good guy (98% of the time) ultimately wins in the end, and since GL is basically ground-up good guy material compared to the EVA, then by those terms GL would most likely win.

In the end, all those weapons and armor, AT fields, etc., don't matter because the characters in shows like these always seem to overcome extreme disadvantages, so to compare the two based on tech specs is like trying to compare the servants of Fate/Stay Night based on their ability grades... (i.e. it doesn't really matter in the end).

I'm not even going to type out why:
Gurren Lagann

lol wat a joke ... GURREN LAGANN

@ogrebattle - "They tell you that AT fields can be neutralized or corroded by another one. They tell you that humans have AT fields. They tell you that without the AT fields Humans would become LCL. Now tell me, is it smart to label these "soul barriers" as AT fields if they are not?"

As stated in my last post, which you ignored, there are numerous instances of humans being in close proximity to Angels or Evangelions, and yet not being liquidized by the AT Field neutralization effect. The entire Nerv staff face down Zeruel, Touji and Kensuke get caught between Eva-01 and the 4th Angel, etc. All of them survive to tell the tale. Shinji is not liquidized by Bardiel when Unit-01's power (and consequently, its AT Field) fails. There is absolutely zero precedent in the series for what you're suggesting - it's absolute nonsense.

"They also tell you that Angels and humans only slightly differ in dna structure, and that results in the different forms. This also affects the AT fields in that they all have different strengths but none of them have completely different energy types or operate on a different medium. So why would you think that humans have different ones?"

For one, because the Evangelions and Angels are not liquidized when their AT Fields are negated. For another, because nearby humans are not liquidized by the Evangelions or the Angels.

"The angels all have some sort of unique ability like giant lazers and such so why is it so unbelievable that the evas also have them? Im saying that what eva did to zerul is not some physical attack thing. Here : youtube.com/watch?v=ZECNg3MBBD0. look @ 1:26!
Its pretty plausible that the eva's would have unique powers (that the humans don't know of or know but sealed away) considering that they are clones of adam and lilith. coincidentally, ritsuko also talks about the bindings and unstoppable power in that clip above."

Using your argument, you could just as easily argue that Eva-01 _should_ be capable of flight, firing cross-shaped blasts, or altering its shape into beams of light. The angels can do that, after all. Why can't the Evangelions? 'They all have an ability, so Eva-01 should have one as well' is even more asinine given that Eva-01 isn't an Angel.

In addition to this point, the damage is done to Zeruel before its AT Field even expands, which defeats the whole point you were trying to make about the power of Eva-01's attack.

"and we are not talking about TTGL!! we are talking about ordinary lagann combined with gurren aka gurren lagann!! reference post #2. The only time that GL ever warped time and space or anything was ep 8, and "the fly to rossiu" scene."

... Which was as regular Gurren Lagann. No upgrades besides its wings.

Incidentally, the fact that we're handicapping GL just to give Eva-01 a fighting chance should be a fairly obvious indication as to how this fight would proceed.

"I don't recall GL ever breaking the universe. the idea that GL could breakthrough the AT field is what you would call a conjecture."

We actually have a fairly solid grasp on the strength of various AT Fields. The weakest partially blocks the force exerted by an N2 mine, and one of the strongest is penetrated by the combined energy of a large city. The matter of whether GL could break through an AT Field can hence be rephrased: is the GL capable of generating energy equivalent to that of a large city?

"REcall the tepplin incident. Why didn't GL just breakthrough the tornado barrier? i thought he could break teh universe."

As we find out later in the series (when Rossiu takes to space in a bid to save the human race), Spiral Power is dependent on determination and raw belief in the individual's ability to accomplish his or her objective. Logically speaking, Simon couldn't break through Teppelin because at that stage in his journey, he didn't believe that he could. By the same token, he defeated Genome's Razengan with his Lagann because his determination and willpower were up for the task.

By the end of the series, he's gotten considerably more powerful, with the realisation that his Spiral Energy can really do anything he wants it to. He's used it to travel from one side of the universe to the other, to alter the laws of reality, and seen it cause his mole pig to spontaneously adopt human form. Ultimately, he rejects the notion of using his powers to resurrect all his friends en masse, not because it'd be impossible, but because it'd be wrong. The whole point of the second half of GL lies in the limitlessness of Simon's ability.

"alot of people are mentioning how gl can fly but it cant. it can only fly once it assimilates that flying ganman."

In which case, we should also treat Eva-01 as having a maximum 3 minutes operating time, since its power doesn't become unlimited until it assimilates Zeruel.

"ps , i dont think there is anything wrong with eva's technique considering the hulk uses the same one and he's unbeatable."

The Hulk has never fought Galactus, has he?

I can't speak for iamthecheese, but the psychology of the respective pilots seems pretty important to me. Simon is battle hardened and very used to fighting human-like opponents. He destroys the Beast King's four generals without hesitation or remorse. Shinji isn't. He hates fighting in general, and would 'rather die' than hurt a fellow human being.

Gurren lagann > Eva. Even lagann > eva. Only mecha eva could beat would be patlabor.

Kamina and Simon's spiral energy > Shinji's berserk AT field.

Cut the cable, Pummel, ???, Win!!

Wow, those are some hardcore discussions. Could someone try to list both Eva-01's and Gurren Lagann's abilities, description, and such? Just to make a "fair" comparison.

thisisjtor.gif

And boy is it awesome.

Eva 01, hands down!

wallpaper please

does anyone ever state that the EVA UNIT 01 ATE an angel, so therefore cant she just .i dont know...eat ...the lagan thus eating simon, and btw a drill couldnt pierce the AT field, it either needs another AT field to synch with it, or an N2 mine to halt the eva, not destroy it, it just pretty much makes the EVA regenerate..

btw my vote is EVA

@serial: I tried to do that in my first post waaaay up there. Although I knew this was SRS BSNS, I didn't know it was going to be THIS serious!

[quote]does anyone ever state that the EVA UNIT 01 ATE an angel, so therefore cant she just .i dont know...eat ...the lagan thus eating simon, and btw a drill couldnt pierce the AT field, it either needs another AT field to synch with it, or an N2 mine to halt the eva, not destroy it, it just pretty much makes the EVA regenerate..

btw my vote is EVA[/quote]
This is total complete nonsense. Ramiel's AT Field is pierced by an energy beam. Sachiel's is broken by an N2 Mine. There are plenty of incidents in Evangelion itself where AT Fields are penetrated by something other than another AT Field. A sufficiently strong power source will do the trick, and Gurren Lagann most definitely overpowers Eva-00's positron rifle from episode 6.

As for Eva-01 eating Gurren Lagann - for one thing, Zeruel is organic and Gurren Lagann is not. For another, Eva-01 ate a sluggish, largely stationary angel that really made no move to avoid its attacks. The GL is most definitely not a stationary target.

The mind boggles at all the supposed Evangelion fans who seem to have never actually watched the series. The entirety of the Ramiel episodes revolved around the need to compensate for the Evangelion's inability to get close enough to neutralise the Angel's AT Field with their own by gathering enough energy from the city to break through the AT Field outright. Ramiel's AT Field was exceptionally strong yet was easily penetrated by beam of energy powered by a single large city. _That_ pretty much represents the absolute limit of the AT Fields as defensive barriers.

Gurren lagann FTW

@Heero: Your initial post was good, but I have some problems with key aspects. Specifically:

"-- Winner: It really depends upon whether we're including the Lance of Longinus, since seeing GL's ability to store energy on the tip of it's drill pretty much negates the Particle Beam rifle and don't even try to analyze the progressive knife's or pellet gun's effectiveness..."

Eva-01 never actually fights with the Lance of Longinus; with that said, you neglect the most obvious difference between the weapons of the two machines. The Eva's weapons are limited usage. The progressive knife can be broken. The pellet gun and the particle beam have limited shots. Gurren Lagann spawns as many drills as it feels are necessary, and easily repairs them if they're broken. In any hypothetical match up between the two robots, it must thus be kept in mind: Gurren Lagann can throw as much at Eva-01 as it feels like. Eva-01 has to make every blow and shot count.

Most people have also been assuming that the fight is between berserk Eva-01 and GL, in which case the Eva simply does not have access to any weapons at all. Other than its body, that is.

You're also not considering one of GL's more interesting abilities - ie the ability to bore holes through time and space (with which it could presumably send Eva-01 into deep space if necessary) - or the fact that, by the end of the anime, its spiral energy is theoretically only limited by the pilot's desire to limit it.

"Evangelion: Runs off an umbilical cable power source, but if you count the S2 engine, can theoretically run forever.

Gurren Lagann: Runs off the pure will of the pilots wanting to kick ass, with the mech featuring special enhanced capabilities when more power is properly applied."

The pertinent question, as far as I'm concerned, is why, if the Eva gets to keep its S2 engine, which it gained by cannibalizing Zeruel, the Gurren Lagann doesn't get to keep its OWN upgrades (wings, Cathedral Terra, Tengen Toppa, etc) which are similarly gained by taking over enemy parts? We're handicapping Gurren Lagann just to give Eva-01 a chance!

"-- Winner: Gurren Lagann gets more drills, etc., when powered up even further than normal, but both have pretty much limitless power if necessary. GL may be dependent on the pilot not starving to death to function, but then again, the other pilot would probably starve at the same rate, and considering shinji, he'd probably croak first if it got to be THAT long."

Shinji's limitless output, however, only applies to his ability to keep his Evangelion moving. Simon's limitless output encompasses everything to do with the Gurren Lagann, from its weaponry to its own power source.

"-- Winner: Gurren Lagann. Usually people who enjoy their job will perform better than those who don't."

We also kinda do need to add that Shinji has no experience in fighting a human being, and reacts with absolute defiance the first time Gendo tries to make him function in such a capacity, whereas Simon, Kamina, and Viral are much more practical in their take on casualties.

"Gurren Lagann: The Gurren Lagann's official technical specs in this regard are pretty much non-existant. What we do know is it has for the most part, typical metal armor plating, capable of taking a fair amount of punishment without getting too ridiculous. No known specific weakspots other than the cockpit(s)."

We're forgetting about the energy barrier that stopped Viral's beam attack, the first time Gurren Lagann combined.

"Although there's no way to prove it thanks to the applied phlebotinum known as the AT field and spiral energy, it may be possible to break down the AT field using their own sort of AT field from their willpower??"

The only real question here is whether the Gurren Lagann's maximum energy output is at least equivalent to that of a large city (Evangelion 06). If the answer is yes, then GL easily punctures the AT Field.

Later episodes describe Gurren Lagann's pottential energy as being infinite. Go figure.

"the Evangelion could probably do a fair amount of damage in the meantime."

How?

You're also missing out key categories in maneuverability and agility (where the GL again has the advantage thanks to its ability to fly) and general battle strategy (where the GL has the advantage courtesy of pilots who have actually been in combat with enemies that did something other than stand by and fire at them).

"So, that makes 1 tie, and 3 (subjective) wins, in favor of the Gurren Lagann. There's no true way to compare the two, especially since one is clearly Super robot genre and the other is moreso realistic robot genre (hey wait a second, shouldn't it be obvious who would win from just THAT?!?!)"

The _only_ category I'd consider anything other than a total no-contest in favour of GL would be defence, and even that is fairly moot given GL's power. It doesn't matter if you're wear full plate armour or a t-shirt and shorts if your enemy is attacking you with a nuclear bomb. The point you made regarding super robots vs real robots is the most pertinent; the fact is that this was an unfair battle from the get-go. We had to handicap GL by restricting it from half its abilities and upgrades, whilst allowing Eva-01 all of its own, just in order to give the Eva a fighting chance.

@ heero it seems you are formidable in your knowledge of anime physics. however you must've realized that bad guys only lose if they are actually bad guys. Shinji although emo and sinister looking is infact the hero of NGE. therefore he also gets the hero benefits. but in addition, Shinji is a boy where as Simon is a man. Small boys are super effective against large powerful men. I believe the difference between the manliness of Simon and Shinji is so great that it defeats any benefits gained by GL robot's type. through these observations, i conclude that they are in anime physics equilibrium.

ok let's just get our facts straight.. Only human's turn in LCL once their AT field is gone. Angels and do not. OK about the goddamn ppl thing, there were two incidents where a similar incident happened.
1) Yui disappears in eva 01/ becomes the soul of eva.

2) Shinji becomes LCL inside eva.
There you friggin go, close proximity, human, LCL/disappear all the key words.


I seriously wonder where you're pulling this shit from some times.. IF you actually watched the video, the last time you see Zeruel's full body before eva's "special attack" is when Eva kicks him. There is not a single scratch on his body. When he falls he falls on his back. So where did he get those injuries from? Was it Kaji and his watermelons? I'm starting to seriously doubt your observation skills, first you say that there were no scars now you say that they were always there. Unless it was Kaji and his watermelons...hmm?

OK the evangelions are not angels, true, but they are close enough to group them together. The evas as well as the angels stem from adam. with the exception of eva01, eva 01 being a clone of lilith and lilith, adam's equal.

okay if the GL's power solely depends on the pilot why is there a need for viral, who has no spiral power? Why is there a need for TTGL if everything is solely dependent on the pilot. simon might have endless potential but what about GL? GL has its limits thats why it got those upgrades. (arc, chouginga, ttgl.)

look dont give me that shit about the S2 engine, one of your main points since your first post has been external energy. you've never considered it in the first place. its also 5 minutes after the cord is cut not 3. berserked eva doesnt need the cord, after the cord has been cut im sure it will take over. and im not saying that berserked eva has infinite runtime. im just saying that it can do stuff without the cord.

about piercing the AT field:
when they fought that diamond dude why didnt japan just get up, use that electricity and destroy the angel? just because the energy is there doesnt mean it can be used that way. im not saying GL can't use its energy. it can, im guessing they always used the giga-drill b/c it was a way for them to utilize more of the energy and not because they wanted to look badass. with that said, what is it that GL does right before it uses the giga-drill? oh right.. the sunglasses trick. you know the one where they use the sunglasses to immobilize those quick opponents so they can charge their kamehameha er giga drill. after they prepare the giga drill they accelerate quickly toward the opponent drill first and pierce them right in the belly. the thing is, without the sunglasses, the enemy could easily dodge the giga-drill which takes a second or two to prepare and accelerates in a straight line. the point is the sunglasses will not penetrate an AT field and eva will not just wait there for the giga drill. eva runs like an Olympic athlete who is hundreds of feet tall.

ok i gotta agree about galactus tho but i was thinking earth heroes or at least from our galaxy.

You people make me proud.

@Shades of Solomon: Basically you summed up everything I was trying to say when you said "We're handicapping Gurren Lagann to give EVA 01 a chance!".

I agree and basically everything you said about my post is (mostly) true, but I was just trying to put it on a "absolute best case scenario" for EVA 01, just to show that it's EXTREMELY unlikely that Shinji would win.

@Ogrebattle: Make a choice. Are we talking about kid Simon and the regular Gurren Lagann? or are we talking about GROWN Simon and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? You can't have it both ways, and we already know Eva doesn't stand a chance in hell against the full TTGL.

Second, Shinji's position as the "hero" is a highly debated topic to this day. What "hero" brings about the end of his own world? Albeit, it wasn't his direct doing, but in the end we learn it was his ultimate desire that made the world into that desolate place with just him and an (almost dead) Asuka.

And even if you want to ignore all of THAT even, there is no doubt that Simon is CLEARLY the hero in his show, so compared to do Shinji's questionable stance, it's very obvious Simon is the greater hero.




Since I'm getting kind of tired of this argument, and people relying on the super obscure bits of both shows to make arguments, let me say this: At this point we've pretty much proved that it would take the absolute BEST CASE SCENARIO for Eva 01, where Simon is still a kid, in the regular Gurren Lagann, with none of the super upgrades, and Eva 01 gets the S2 organ, in order for Shinji to even have a fighting chance.

At this point, that's like saying a fucking GM can beat the Hi-Nu-Gundam if the Hi-Nu has to run on AA batteries. The comparison between GL and Eva is ridiculous and absolutely meaningless.


Now, if this was Diebuster vs. TTGL, then there might be an interesting fight..

@Heero Yuy

No only if it was a Diebuster vs. Arc Gurren Lagann, because no way Diebuster could go against TTGL.

@Ogrbattle - Shinji is absorbed into Eva-01 because his synchronisation rate rises too high. He _becomes_ Eva-01. There is no suggestion that it happens because his AT Field has broken down, because if that were the case, it would happen every time he activated the Evangelion. It would have also happened to Asuka, Rei, Touji and Kensuke. It would have happened to the entire Nerv staff when they confronted Zeruel. It would have happened to the numerous individuals whose vehicles Asuka destroyed with her AT Field in the End of Eva.

Evangelion 02 demonstrates that AT Field cancellation occurs due to destructive interference - that's why the various humans that come into contact with the Evas aren't vapourised.

As for Zeruel, I've watched the video on a high definition 40 inch screen - I don't see any wounds on its body. Only blood splattering from the mangled arm.

The truly amusing matter, in any case, is that this point isn't even relevant to our discussion! You raised it to prove that Eva-01 was capable of an attack exceeding the power output of a nuke, because it had 'broken through Zeruel's AT Field' with a single attack. However, Zeruel doesn't even raise its AT Field until after the attack has already hit home!

"OK the evangelions are not angels, true, but they are close enough to group them together. The evas as well as the angels stem from adam. with the exception of eva01, eva 01 being a clone of lilith and lilith, adam's equal."

Humans stem from Lillith - the same source as the Evangelions. I don't see anyone trying to claim that Shinji can fire energy beams. What you're saying is that because the Evas were created from something that was SIMILAR to the creature the Angels descended from, they SHOULD be able to do the same things? The Angels are all descended from Adam, yet have vastly different abilities, some of which you'd be hard-pressed to describe as 'abilities' in the sense that you're using the word at all.

"okay if the GL's power solely depends on the pilot why is there a need for viral, who has no spiral power? Why is there a need for TTGL if everything is solely dependent on the pilot. simon might have endless potential but what about GL? GL has its limits thats why it got those upgrades. (arc, chouginga, ttgl.)"

The obvious answer is that there really _isn't_ any need for Viral in particular - any character could do in his place. Numerous characters take Kamina's place in Gurren's cockpit, without any real, noticeable effect on Simon's fighting ability.

Nor is there any real, substantive need for the Gurren Lagann to upgrade at all. Genome's Razengan is overpowered by Simon's Lagann, despite the fact that the Razengan is a much larger unit, which has been capable in the past of destroying a vast number of spiral units single-handedly.

If Spiral Power is tied to belief and will, then the only substantive difference that a bigger unit would have would be on the pilot's psyche. Let's face it, you'd feel a lot more confident of victory in a galaxy-sized mecha than in a house-sized mecha.

"look dont give me that shit about the S2 engine, one of your main points since your first post has been external energy. you've never considered it in the first place. its also 5 minutes after the cord is cut not 3. berserked eva doesnt need the cord, after the cord has been cut im sure it will take over. and im not saying that berserked eva has infinite runtime. im just saying that it can do stuff without the cord."

I've actually not made the point about the Evangelion's limited run time at all, except in response to Heero's post (which specifically mentioned the S2 engines) - you must be mistaking me for someone else. With that being said, the idea that the berserked Evangelion takes over the moment Shinji runs out of energy is nonsense. The Eva is powerless for an extended period of time in Evangelion 16 without the berserker taking over. Similarly, in Evangelion 02, it is not the loss of battery power, but Shinji's unconsciousness that triggers the berserker mode.

Of the three occasions on which Eva Unit-01 goes berserk, only one occurs immediately after it has run out of battery power - in the Zeruel fight.

"when they fought that diamond dude why didnt japan just get up, use that electricity and destroy the angel?"

Because you need something to be directing the energy at the angel? Did you even watch the episode?

"just because the energy is there doesnt mean it can be used that way. im not saying GL can't use its energy. it can, im guessing they always used the giga-drill b/c it was a way for them to utilize more of the energy and not because they wanted to look badass."

When's the last time that Simon uses the Giga Drill Breaker? Later episodes of the anime have the GL firing energy blasts from its drill and creating a generalised energy shockwave, in addition to travelling through time and space (and yes, all this is done by the Gurren Lagann, not by Chouginga, Arc or Tengen Toppa). I'd say by the end of the anime Simon's most definitely learned how to utilise his energy more efficiently.

"with that said, what is it that GL does right zefore it uses the giga-drill? oh right.. the sunglasses trick. you know the one where they use the sunglasses to immobilize those quick opponents so they can charge their kamehameha er giga drill. after they prepare the giga drill they accelerate quickly toward the opponent drill first and pierce them right in the belly. the thing is, without the sunglasses, the enemy could easily dodge the giga-drill which takes a second or two to prepare and accelerates in a straight line. the point is the sunglasses will not penetrate an AT field and eva will not just wait there for the giga drill. eva runs like an Olympic athlete who is hundreds of feet tall."

As stated above, by the end of the anime Simon is far from relying on his Giga Drill Breaker technique in order to attack. He's learned to make the GL's drill fire energy blasts as well as creating a generalised energy shockwave, and in fact doesn't use the Giga Drill Breaker against the anti-spiral at all.

As for the Evas running like 'Olympic atheletes' - what good does that do them against an opponent that can bore holes through time and space to move through?

"ok i gotta agree about galactus tho but i was thinking earth heroes or at least from our galaxy."

In which case the analogy stops being pertinent (quite apart from being a bad analogy in the first place, since you were comparing characters within a given universe rather than two characters from separate universes, as we're doing here. Here's a debate for you - Hulk or Goku?).

@yaesir: Yeah, I thought about that after I posted.... my bad.

Gawd, if I can only vote for one of these twc, it would have to be for Gurren Lagan.

But I would have loved to hear on anyone's thoughts on a fight between Eva 001 vs. Gundam 00 or Gurren Lagan vs. one of Go Nagai's giant robots (e.g., MazinKaiser).

gurren lagann. simon and kamina have the spirit, manliness, and badassery to defeat the impossible, piercing the heavens, and ending with a cool pose.

I hate laggen. Never finished the second series. Why don't you just ring up the creators and ask them to Simon a super power, ridiculous.

Why is it Shinji and unit 01? It should be Asuka and unit 02. Then it would be a competition. She took down the mass produced eva series with her power supply cut before the lance of loginence went through her head. [She was able to stop if for a few seconds with her AT field, so she could stop drills and stab with the lance?]

So if the lance of loginance can pierce unit 02's armour, it can certainly make its way through Simons bulky bs cot pit. Askua with unit 02 is to a champion gymnast, mech style. Combined with the AT field to fend of the drills, could land a well placed stab to win the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NNEfJglgt0&feature=related

Askua amv.

First post btw ^^

what if:

1) gurren laggann detaches
2) laggann is trhown at eva
3) laggann fucking drills thru the gay AT field
4) laggann FUTIONS with EVA01, killing shinji in the process
5) everyone shits in their pants

ahp, it's been already suggessted, my bad for not reading thoroughly '^^

If it depends on sheer power, Gurren Lagann. Nothing can stand against the sheer MANLINESS that is Gurren Lagann, which is pretty much the Chuck Norris of mecha. It / he uses the badassery of the pilot as fuel, and can theoretically run forever as long as Kamina (or some other badass) is in the main cockpit. Gurren Lagann can spawn DRILLS all over its body (Giga Drill Maximum for example), use those drills to break through the fabric of Space and Time, and tear through Eva's power cable and musculature and finally, GIGA! DRILL! BREAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!. It can even kill a GOD (Anti-Spiral, an anonymous blob from an alien race's collective unconscious sleeping in some form of The Matrix).

However, despite Eva's frail weak appearance, it has lots of dark secrets and trump cards that relies on deliberate subversion, precision strikes on the mind, and plot twists to destroy its opponents. For example, Berserker Eva, which usually happens when an Angel thinks he is like "OMG LOOKS LIKE I WIN YA BASTARDS" (for example, Zeruel thinks he has beaten Eva, whien in fact Eva is just waiting for his AT Field to be lowered down so it / she can tear him apart and EAT him). AT Fields look like they're broken and flawed, but look on how our individuality (AT Field) keeps generating flame wars. For more complexity, the End of Eva episode. If Eva-01 had Rei Ayanami, an s2 engine, a Lance of Longinus, and a whiny emo bitch as the pilot, EVERYBODY DIES AND TURNS INTO TANG. That includes any unprotected Spiral (Spirals are humans, after all). After Tangification, while everyone gets raped by Rei and says WTF, Shinji comes back, and he wins. In case of Kamina, the abundance of naked Reis can be used by Nerv against him, who has an affection for naked girls (uncensored version of episode 6). If it's not Kamina, then Simon will be mind-raped by the horrors that Eva will show, since he also showed signs of weakness, including the "Yoko hates Simon and kisses Kamina" and "Kamina Dies" incidents (No, I'm not talking about Anti-Spiral, Anti-Spiral is like Joker, but Eva is like an entire mental asylum in a form of a mecha. Anyone showing signs of emoness will break down into Tang, both physically and mentally, in this lovecraftian horror).

For me, Gurren Lagann vs. Evangelion is like Code Geass (Britannia vs Lelouch), GL has sheer overpower and large ham, like Britannia (or at least Norio Wakamoto, who also performs the Giga Drill Breaker for God's sake) while Eva is physically frail but mystical in nature and hard to predict, like Lelouch. And guess who won.

Wow, What is wrong with you guys? Gurren Laggan? last time I checked Eva unit 01 destroyed the world,killed angels,and turned everybody into orange juice(LCL).
So what if Shinji is a wimp he does the things that normally he wouldn't because he wants to protect the people he loves(and to be praised).

Manliness and brotherhood can go to hell, the way I look at it is that the A.T field can block everything just watch Evangelion 2.0 you will learn the real meaning of power.

who cares if they got a drill, The prog knife is said to cut through anything,remember back to Shinji's battle with Shamshel, imagine him doing that to gurren laggan Kamina or simon would die instantly.

People these days never respect the classics, all they do is watch something crappy and call it good because of appearances.

Me myself am not really much of an otaku I'm just a normal person who watches anime not anything more.

But the thing about Neon Genesis Evangelion is that it has a back story to it.

Adam
Lilith
Black & White moons
Angels
Yui
Gehirn
Seele
Nerve
Evangelion Units
Character back story
sad Character back stories
& Classical music
awesome right!

But what does Gurren Laggan have?
people live in holes
digging
ganmen
animal people
&punks
all seriously?
god GL is stupid

NGE is something like a mystery, things unwind once you see the clues and it pulls you in the more you know.

but Gurren laggan is just something completely random and you throw it away right after you watch it.

if anybody thinks that simon can hijak Eva then you are totally wrong
because eva is biological and you cant control something that has the pilot's mother's soul in it.

the best thing that could happen to gurren laggan after trying to take over eva is that it would be torn to pieces and speared in the face by the longinus spear.

NGE is infinitly better than GL hands down.!!!!!!!!

Oh,and for the people who think that eva shuts down after 5 minutes then you are wrong, Eva ate an S2 engine so it can go on as long as it wants,
For more epicness I recommend you watch evangelion 1.0 & 2.0
both are great and have the best ost (EVA)R!!!!

Gurren Lagann will take this. To quote Simon: "We evolved beyond the person we were a minute before! Little by little, we advance a bit further with each turn! That's how a drill works!".

@Naoi & Shinji
GL has a backstory. you would know if you truly watched it. i watche both NGE and GL, and personally found GL to be more satisfying.
now for the backstory
now imagine, if you will, an Earth much like ours but slightly more advanced. then due to the build up of a huge amount of energy, all powerful beings known as the Anti-spirals come. Earth, fille determination to live and hope to survive, rally against these tyrants. building robots that can go out into space and be piloted by special humans with an infinite energy.however, their general, in a skirmish, is shown what will happen the human race is allowed to continue like this (an apocalypse due to the energy consuming everything around it. the general, realizing what may happen and filled with fear, turns on his companions, murdering them and making sure that the human race would never build enough spiral power to allow the apocalypse to happen.then, in order to quell and rebellions and keep the population to a bare minimum, the general creates half- animal, half-human creations of his own imagination to enforce his power. and that's just the prequel.

ok. so back to the debate...
first, the much debated AT field. i'm staying to the orignal canon, so no movies, just episodes for both. if i brought out moves, i would fear for poor soulds arguing against STTGL. (super TTGL)
now, as stated before, the AT field is essentially a large shield that is fueled by our self awareness. and depening on the specimen, examined, if can be titanically strong. however, in the very first 7 or 8 episodes i believe, we have seen the AT field demolished by a positron rifle, firing the pure energy of entire city. GL has a move to counter this, giga drill breaker. we have seen this move pierce countless foes and the move has never been blocked. it is fueled by the willpower of its pilots, which as we have said are, Kamina and Simon. now, if you have ever seen the show, you know that a move dependent on the determination and/or willpower of its pilot(s) being used by kamina and simon is essentially giving the strongest thing you know a power up that allows it to fuck reality. and so, the AT field will be pierced. if not at first, it will be again as the very core of the energy both Kamina and Simon use is to evolve past the obstacle in fornt of it. think of it like goku, if he doesn't beat you the first time, he will train and beat the you second time, no matter what. how ever, unlike goku, there is no training and the energy and pilots using it just evolve extremely fast. and due to the infinite power that gurren lagann possesses, any pesky time restraints will be nullified. also, the extremely powerful healing factor given to the mecha by its head lagann nullifies damages. and so, to give unit- 01 a chance, add an S2 engine. so it can now heal and run forever, like GL. but, unit-01 has two blinding weak spots. one being a literal blinding weak spot, the core, which if destroyed,nullifies the entire machine. then the lack of USEFUL weapons. i said useful because I acknowledge weapons like the positron rifle and such. however, the rifle takes time to charge and leaves its user wide open during the pre shot routine. second, the prog knfe won't do much as it can hardly stand up to weapons that took out the "all-powerful" AT field. and besides kicking and punching, both areas where GL can hold its own or at least match, are useless. and so, after much debated between two animes in my top ten and top five fav robos, GL WINS.