I have never "pirated" anime. But that's only because I prefer manga over anime.

I've been mostly adherent to this philosophy for a while now. Although I pirated my fair share of anime when I first got into it, for the most part I've recently kept from downloading anything licensed. Although I do sometimes make exceptions for things I honestly have no plans to buy. I don't see there being much harm in watching Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood once through in fansubs when I'd just watch it once on tv after it gets licensed.

Wow really im offended. Anime fans arent pirates. actually its more like kids who watch nothing more than bleach trying to make a scene but you know whatever without piracy companys would loose money. someones doesnt go to a theater and illegally film anime lol, anime downloading and piracy in my opinion are two different subjects. Without anime download sites I'd gave spent no money on boxsets never got into anime and spent money at cons at merchandise etc, you get where im going, being able to download anime is one of the many joys of being OTAKU.

And yet, downloading anime without paying for it is still illegal, and is... piracy.

Consider this, sales in the industry are way way down from it peak in 2006. The number of shows that come out each season is significantly smaller. A lot of this obviously has a lot of do with outdated business practices that need to be changed. So much of what the anime industry does now is focused on exploiting the increasingly small number of fans rather than trying to grow the audience (at least that's how I see it). None the less, if you are a fan, it will be a sad day for you when there's not really anime left because they couldn't turn a profit.

Well I'm the type of person who hates it when people pirate anime. I personally own about 150 complete series on DVD and Blu-ray and I only ever download fan subs for shows I am pretty sure will never come out here and even then I don't like doing it.

Should a show I downloaded come out in the US I buy it. Regardless of if I liked it or not. Because I downloaded and should have payed for it. I'm sick and tired of friends of mine watching anime online illegally when 90% of what they are watching is available for FREE on sites like Funimation.com or Hulu. It's really annoying and no matter how many times I tell them they don't seem to change and watch the same show in a legal place.

Anime profits dieing have crap to do with downloading that's, lies they feed you. Its proven anime is a dying hobby. Dying Hobby=Less money spent on that hobby. Also the fact that japan pays the animators crap so wants the point of making new shows. Also you just stated fan-subs were illegal. Geeze makes me wanna FAP.

Reibooi
-Why should it matter how one watches it. If they like it they'll buy it most people delete off HD anyways after watching. Downloading MKV videos beats streaming offline. Try watching anime on Funi or HULU when your internet is down?

What I'd absolutely love to see in the future is some sort of iTunes Store type of deal where shows can be bought online a la carte a week or so after air. Why something like this hasn't happened already given the amount of fansub groups that can do quality subs within days of release surprises me.

Any entrepenurial and connected otaku with some clout want to go in with me on a pitch? ;)

I challenge Funimation and the other Anime companies (are there any left?) to put out Blu-rays in a timely manner instead of one to two years after the show airs.

I challenge all of the Anime companies (Japanese included) to put out one box set per show/season instead of 8 separate discs. See 24, Sopranos, True Blood, etc. None of those come in individual episode discs. You get the whole season, or no season. Usually they come out right after the season airs. Or better yet, like Glee, that had their fall finale and then the DVD box set was available a week later.

Until the above happens, I will continue to "illegally" watch commercial sponsored TV shows that air for free.

@Shugo: "without piracy companys would loose money" What universe do you live in?

This is pretty much the policy that I've always gone by anyway. I hardly download anime that haven't been licensed, even, usually just stuff that I'm going to have to see because it's all everyone talks about anymore, which means I'm going to have to download K-On! eventually. I typically buy anime I watched subbed that get imported anyway.
I do not have a Twitter and I'm not going to sink into that realm, so I can't join you on that front. Regardless I salute your vigor in this cause and support you in spirit. Believe in the me who believes in you!

I have to agree a bit with Shugo. The reason the anime industry is dead isn't so much because of fansubbing as much as a lack of reaction to it. Before everyone and their grandma had high speed Internet, buying was one, if not the only, way for fans to get their anime mix, so you had a lot of people taking a gamble on a show they knew little to nothing about because it was the only way to know if it was any good. Despite that that's no longer the case and we can preview pretty much anything before even thinking about buying it, a lot of companies still insist on oversaturing the market with crap no one wants. People gripe about Funimation, but they do their homework and that's why they're one of the few companies really flourishing right now. For the rest, I'd say it's their own lack of having been able to evolve with the times that's killing them.

@lyfeforce: If you find such a connected otaku or form such connections yourself then let me know, and I'll do likewise for you.

@horsedick: None of the anime companies are doing single-disc releases anymore. Everything is now released as either a full-season or half-season box set.

Also, FUNimation explained on the latest ANNcast why it takes about 6 months after a series is licensed to get it onto shelves. Essentially, if they rushed the process, you'd get a release with crappy video and audio. Good quality DVDs and blurays take time to make.

I've been doing my very best at this, but I gotta say it's difficult for some of the more obscure anime like Haibane Renmei. Those DVDs are EXPENSIVE.

@Shugo: "without piracy companys would loose money" What universe do you live in?

Anime is not like films if its not licensed your not gonna find nice little previews and things, and your not gonna be buying it from us companies like Funi, you'll be importing it and usually for loads of money. Your best bet is to download it then if it is US released buy it, like I did when spice and wolf was released, a 2-disc set $50. What was that about people who download killing the industry?

I have an Idea.

1. Make anime free for streaming (with ad interruptions to pay for it.) online for free via services like hulu and the like. Then when you release the DVD, have extra's like commentary and extra scenes.

2. Release the DVD's/Blue ray discs in a timley manner. We don't want to wait 3 months till we can get our hands on a physical version of the season.

3. Release anime in seasons rather then groups of 3 or 4 episodes, and for a affordable price.

4. Release with both sub and dub options for the consumer.

@Shugo: It's nice to hear you're buying anime, but I know LOTS of people who refuse to buy ANY anime because they can download it all for free. Those are the people that are killing the industry. Heck, I know a guy who's seen pretty much every anime ever made, but has never spent a cent on it.

Downloading pirated videos isn't illegal. Its a copyright violation, which is a civil matter. Making bootlegs though is illegal, though mostly large scale bootlegging operations are the ones most prosecuted. I really hate it when people try to make copyright violations sound illegal. Copyright is an artificial monopoly and the founders of the United States realized that when they made sure it wasn't a criminal offense to make unauthorized copies.

@GamesAreArt: Everything you just said has already been done, with the exception of "timely releases".

This is what I attempt to do. After Gurren Lagann and Big Windup were licensed, I got those DVDs right away. Still, I find DVDs to still be inconvenient and slow compared to downloading. Also, holy shit, discontinued DVDs are EXPENSIVE.

Way I see it, if publishers really want to stop piracy, they got to step it up and offer us a service like Hulu, but with high quality subbed anime. If they could manage to release new anime online (I'd say no less than a month after it's aired in Japan) for free at high quality on a consistent basis, most anime fans would have absolutely no reason to resort to piracy.

Forget about 2-4. "
@horsedick: None of the anime companies are doing single-disc releases anymore. Everything is now released as either a full-season or half-season box set.

Also, FUNimation explained on the latest ANNcast why it takes about 6 months after a series is licensed to get it onto shelves. Essentially, if they rushed the process, you'd get a release with crappy video and audio. Good quality DVDs and blurays take time to make."

I mostly watch anime streamed from the web via sites like crunchy roll, and sometimes (shamefully) youtube.

I'm trying. But I get discouraged when I put a DVD on and see some really horrible subs. Yes I prefer subs over dubs. I wish the companies would put a little effort into making the subtitles at least a bit easier and nicer to read. This is the reason why I've kept most of the fansubbed versions of the shows I've got on DVD.
Living in the UK hardly any of the shows I've downloaded are licensed and released over here anyway, nor can you even find the ones you want in any store bar HMV but then they're ridiculously overpriced.

@Shugo: Anime is not like films if its not licensed your not gonna find nice little previews and things

Uh...you do realize what website you're on, right? You do realize that Japanator gives reviews and first impressions of both licensed and unlicensed anime, right? And you do realize that there are many other websites and podcasts that do the same thing, right? And that if all else fails, you can probably ask about an anime on a well-populated message board?

Come on, man. If you know enough to come to this site, register and then post comments, I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

NO.

just fucking no.

Japanator gives personal opinions and little descriptions, mostly on fansubs and new releases, and not everything is covered.

Stilts
-I know that, but not everything is covered by them and that just wants to make you download it more, stream it however you do the buisness. You cant support fansubs but not support anime download sites. WTF? all licensed anime were at one time most likely fansubs. How do you think anime gets so popular, the answer is downloaders.

Something else to consider, though there isn't really anything we can do about it. We aren't the only ones downloading illegal episodes, the Japanese are too, and they have far fewer excuses.

@Mechwarrior:
You're right, copyright infringement is not a criminal offense, but violating civil statues is also illegal activity. The laws are designed to curb the behavior. The court system and penalties are different but there is a law meant to stop it and people who infringe are breaking that law. Just the same as employers who don't hire someone because of their race are engaging in illegal activity.

Semantics aside, I think it is safe to say (or perhaps not according to some people) that piracy is, at the very least, unethical.

Then how about supporting the free, perfectly legal, means to see them? You seem to be saying "Screw em, they are dieing so I will let them die while I get it all for free" whereas there are at least 2 free legal means to see anime listed right in the comments here.

PS. Why does it seem that a lot of shows I want to watch (Lucky star for an example) aren't available for legal streaming (and lucky star seems to be pretty mainstream when it comes to anime).

Anime is not a hobby, it's an industry. The very fact that you use that word to discribe it mitigates your point, effectively sabotaging your own argument.

There is no getting around the fact that someone spent money making a product that you are getting for free. It is a form of piracy and while it may or may not be in violation of any of your national laws to watch unlicensed materials, failing to purchase said material in a licensed format after having watched it does nothing to help the industry.

At Japanator, we're enthusiasts as well as journalists, so we completely understand when people say they want to watch anime as soon as possible, but at the same time, we'd rather own it than merely download and watch it, and as such we purchase anime. At any given convention, I can easily drop between $40-100 on box sets. Why? Because we care about the industry and you should too.

As for anime being released in a timely manner, it's not always up to the studios here. A lot of the time, they have to answer to the Japanese companies whom they license from. If Aniplex doesn't want a DVD released in the US before it hits shelves in Japan, or demands that we lose our Japanese voice tracks on the Blu-Ray releases for fear of our cheaper Blu-Rays being imported overseas, then Bandai, Funimation, etc. have to comply.

My advice would be to not run out and license every fucking show right off. In fact, wait and see which fansubbed shows get the most views. THEN go and Dub em up with QUALITY dubs and sell those one BlueRay.

The re-licensing of FLCL for Blueray was a smart move. I will buy that PERIOD.

I try to buy anime as much as I can, though the issue is that I'm strapped for cash most of the time and watching licensed anime that I just can't afford at the time really is tempting; especially when I'm distributing it between groceries, games and clothes. For example, I've been looking at the complete collection of Black Lagoon for some time, but just can't bring myself to drop the eighty-dollars on it when I have other things to buy.

That said, I'll do my absolute best to stay away from licensed anime; I imagine it will be difficult, especially as many of the anime I enjoy are licensed (such as TTGL which I still don't have the box-set for, while it sits there on the shelf of an HMV... mocking me), but I'll get by.

So, uh... yeah. I'll throw my hat into the ring.

The biggest problem right now is people can't afford ALL the anime they want. Streaming looks like uttercrap and requires having a browser open to play...I'd honestly like some sort of temporary download service so that I don't have to load every RIGHT when I want to watch it..and the quality is terrible on streaming. People who are sick and can't work can't afford ANY anime and have to depend on who is providing for everything else to buy anime for them and that's honestly not a solution. On cable you get to watch HD stuff for a very small increase in price compared to SD channels only..I don't see why we can't get free 480p in reliable bitrate on sites like crunchyroll (simulcast sites i mean), and then 720p AND 1080p for their subscription rip-off service..right now they only have 720p which looks like ass on most computer monitors that even go to 720p since they usually native at much higher especially now days. Either way, the biggest reason why I think people pirate is the cost to watch anime in DECENT quality. Buying anime you havn't seen on dvd/bluray is NOT an answer at all.

@ Reibooi

I wish I were rich, please not try to spit on us poor folk whilst you trump your 150 series collection.

hmmm I cant afford a car guess ill go steal on

@Kougeru: The biggest problem right now is people can't afford ALL the anime they want.

I totally understand what you mean. But you know what I do when I don't have the budget to buy more anime? I find something else to do. I read books and comics. I watch TV shows that are free online. I listen to music. I exercise. I write.

There are so many other things you can do that it's entirely reasonable to suggest that, if you can't afford it, you should just wait. That's what I do for videogames, graphic novels, American TV, movies and...well...anime.

This is exactly what I do now, just without the twitter hash tag. I'm in. twitter name is Kamanashi if any one feels like following me.

@That guy

i'm not rich. Ever seen shows like Welcome to the NHK and Genshiken in which the character some times pass up buying food to get the latest thing they want in the world of fandom? Yeah I pretty much do that. I have no more money then average joe but I love anime enough to sacrifice other things to support the industry that I enjoy so much. Anyone can do that and over the years the collections will get just as big as mine.

@Stilts: If you do something besides buying anime you haven't really helped the anime industry. If you're just playing videogames that doesn't really help their bottom line.

You might as well have watched the fansubs of the anime and bought the BR disc later because you really loved the show. Watching the show does not stop you from buying it later.

They need to concentrate on making their Blue Ray releases collectible. Never underestimate the power of good packaging and limited releases.

@Shugo

The reason you should watch stuff on the REAL sites like Funi.com or Hulu is because doing so GIVES THE COMPANY REVENUE!!! They do not get that REVENUE!!! if you download a random fan subbed MKV file. Sure you cannot watch stuff on those sites if your internet is down. But guess what caption clueless. YOU CAN'T DOWNLOAD MKV's WITHOUT THE INTERNET EITHER!!!

The whole "If they like it they will buy it" Thing is BS. I can't tell you the amount of people I know who have seen shows like Samurai 7, Death Note, Bleach and Naruto fan subbed and could not stop raving about it and yet NEVER bought a single disc despite the insanely low prices you can get them for over at places like Right Stuf. If people can get stuff for free they don't care more often then not about buying and supporting those behind it.

Do most people in Japan buy anime on DVD's? Hell, no! They watch it on TV for free, or they record it on their DVR's. If the anime DVD market dies, it will be an opportunity for a cable channel (Anime Network?) or video on demand service to step in. I have too many damn DVD's already, I don't need anymore.

I hated buying computer games because of the stupid piracy issues. I'd buy a game at a store like a good honest citizen, and then I'd go to install it and the disc wouldn't read. Then it would have some problem with the copy protection like it would refuse to install if Alcohol 120% or Daemon Tools was installed. Now I use Steam. Yes, it's copy protection, but I don't notice it. I can log into my account on any computer, download a game that I've paid for, and play it without any discs necessary. I love it.

I have both a PS3 and an Xbox360. What are the games I play the most? The ones I bought on the online store. I don't need to search around and find a stupid disc. They're all just there.

Oh yeah, and there's also Netflix. Netflix is awesome.

I don't mind paying for stuff, I just don't want tons of discs and cases.

@Reibooi: Yea, they didn't buy it today. You need to think a little father ahead then next week.

I've 36 man. When I was 22 I could barely afford beer and weed let alone video games and movies. Did I buy Akira on DVD later in life? Yes. Do I own all the old Studio Ghibli movies on DVD? Yea. Will I buy these on BR? yep.

You can say that your friends are broke worthless stoners today. But in 20 years they will still be Otaku and will still re-watch the shows they loved when they were losers working at Gamestop.

I have pirated anime before, and i do feel really bad about it. but when it comes down to it, if i like a series enough i will buy it. i treat it like renting before i buy, if its good enough then the people that made it deserve my money.

@Cryptnotic, I myself love having the discs and boxes. I pride myself on the size of my collection. Just seeing ti grow over the years makes me happy.

@Slim Daniels

You cannot base everyone on how You were when you got older. The majority of the friends I know have no shortage of money. They buy stuff all the time like PS3's(For watching MKV's on their nice shiny 1080P TV's) They buy the newest games for said PS3's and even upgrade their PC's to play the newest PC games.

They have no money shortage. The simple fact is they can get fan subs for free and in really high quality to boot(sometimes Blu-ray Quality) and see no reason to pay money for something they are getting for free.

While you may have grown up to be a up standing fan who bought the stuff you like when you were younger you cannot say the same for most of the anime fans out there. Most of them if anything will grow out of liking anime rather then being mature enough in the future to own up and pay for something they should have long ago.

but what about merchandising? If you really love a certain series, Naruto for example, wouldn't you buy merchandise related to the series, such as drinks, plushies, video games, and snuggies? I may be wrong, but i think the company that licenses such titles would get some cut. And if the copy right issue is so huge, what about doujinshi? I'm not trying to downplay the problem, but then why isn't doujinshi under fire.
Please be gentle, just putting out my thoughts.

I can certainly base it on what me and my friends were and are now.

We were pirates then and we are pirates now! I'm far from broke today yet I still pirate music and Wii, PC games ... anime. Yet, we still have collections of things we really love.

I have a game room full of old console video games. I have a couple of arcade cabinets. I have the BluRay THORA 1080p rip of Akira yet I also have the BR disc. I have all the BR releases of Ghibli on my media player already but I will buy them later.

All my friends and the people I game with and Con with are like this. Will I buy the FLCL BR release? Yes. Why? Because I like how they look on my shelf next to my NES carts and top loader.

@pastamobsta

Funimation is just now getting into selling other things to go along with the DVD's like Wall Scrolls, Mugs, Key Chains, Hats and even back packs. However I have no idea how much money they make off doing that and I don't know if it's enough to really make much of a difference.

As for the Doujin market. The Doujin market is something of a unique beast in Japan. If something like it were to exist in the US for comic book fandom I.E spider man fan making a doujin and selling it for profit they would get sued out the ass. However that's not how it is in Japan. As a matter of fact it in a way helps to grow the industry and create new fans.

Alot of Doujin makers even go on to be very respectable Manga-Ka or even game creators(like Type-Moon)

Anime on VHS Check... LaserDisc Check... DVD Check. Downloaded Check... Purchased when series licensed Check... How do I feel about this?

If it can't be had anywhere else and it's never been or will never be licensed and you find a copy it's your decision. I have 2 obscure series that are what you would call non legal. If they are ever licensed and put on something more durable than VHS you bet I'll buy them..

When did this place turn into WildArmsHeero's blog?

@Cryptnotic

The "They watch it on TV for free" argument is not valid. They pay their cable bills, and sit through the television ads, both of which drive revenue to the companies that make the anime. Believe it or not, even Japanese television networks have to license their anime. People in japan don't just turn on their TVs and watch anime without commercials on demand.

That'd be like saying that people in america can watch cartoon network for free, or that every show you want to watch is available to you on demand, commercial free simply by turning on your television and willing it to be so.

Tim is correct. The show fills a 30 minute slot but the fansubs are 22ish minutes. Nearly 8 minutes of commercials is like 16 spots at $20,000 each. I think anyway. The super Bowl spot slots cost over two million.

I'll go ahead and get this out of way, I fully support Fan Subbing, in fact I love it, and I wish it nothing but success.

Now the issue with Licensed Anime and Piracy is a tricky matter, one of the biggest problems I have with Anime that is brought to the States is how long it takes from when the show is aired in Japan until when it hits DVD and Blu-Ray over here. This is a process that can take anywhere from 6 months to a year, or longer. There has got to be a way to speed up the licensing process to get a faster turn around of recent good Anime on American Store Shelves.

And the other issue is the usually outrageous pricing of DVDs and Blu-Rays. Can you imagine if Final Fantasy XIII was $100 just because Square Enix knew Americans would pay that much for it? Outrageous, right? I feel that a standardized U.S. pricing system for Anime DVDs and Blu-Rays would help tremendously with sales. Make it reasonable like American T.V. Shows Season DVDs. For instance, $19.99 for the first season of a popular show on DVD (12-13 Episodes), then give it Dual-Audio, Commentary, and some unique Special Features. Then make the Blu-Ray version only $29.99 and add in even more special features and bonuses to make buyers more interested in getting the Blu-Ray version instead.

Don't make Otaku feel like they'll have to eat nothing but Ramen for a month just so they can afford the new over priced Volume 3 DVD of their favorite Anime.

-Moonlight- you say that 80$ is too much for you? Alright, fair enough.

How about 40$ then? That's a pretty damn good deal for both season of Black Lagoon, I reckon.

http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/hYG8LxHuRfc46QK-rg/browse/item/84227/4/0/0

The power is in your hands, shop around.

No seriously, was the objective here TRYING to create a flamewar? I mean I thought this was a news site...

And where did you get the idea that Japanator was a news site, Heero?

If you want straight-up anime news, go read ANN. Here at Japanator, we try to be more interesting than a site that does nothing but post press releases and sales figures (no offense to Justin and Zac).

#apirate

Generally, I'll buy a season if I enjoyed it and thought it was worth the money. And chances are that normally means I'll buy everything I haven't dropped.

But that costs a LOT of money.

I'll admit, I don't buy everything I watch. However, I do make a pretty good effort to snag everything I felt was in the upper crust. My next purchase will most likely be the two released boxsets of Honey and Clover, an anime I absolutely loved and watched the fansubs through like three times. For a while, I had doubts it would be released in North America, as I heard Viz had the license, but no announcements were made about it for a long time. I mean, within the sphere of buying a legit copy and supporting the industry, I'm still gonna shop around for the lowest price; that's my prerogative as a consumer, and something I do for many products I buy.

If I had to give one good answer that encompasses why I continue to watch fansubs, it's that I absolutely abhor the "blind buy." It is extremely rare for me to purchase an anime (or movie, book, or CD) that I have not seen/read/heard before. When I buy something, I want to be as certain as possible that the money I spend is going to something I will enjoy in the future, and not something that could've been a rental, where I watch it once, then have little to no interest in watching it again. Given the propensity of anime to often start really interesting and end in an underwhelming way, I feel I absolutely must have a way of pre-evaluating titles. I've been looking into the possibility of a Netflix subscription for a while, but I'm not sure how wide their anime database is, or how quickly titles I put on request would get to me. I also, where possible, try to borrow anime from friends/loan anime to friends - that old-type way of trading has been pretty good for me.

Being from a country outside the US, I can't access those websites everyone keeps talking about.
No Hulu, No FUNimation and limited Crunchyroll shows.
I do watch on Crunchyroll things like like Tegami Bachi which is one out of 4 shows this season that they have and I watch.

Being in an economy that still relies on cash, brick and mortar stores, and needing to import English dvds from the US, it is quite difficult and expensive to obtain any dvds aside from really mainstream ones like Naruto and Deathnote.
And people rarely have the ability to have premium accounts, or buy from online stores because of said cash-based economy. No credit cards, no paypal.
For me, fansubs/rips are the only way to be able to watch anime that I want.

I do regularly buy English manga and figures though. So I feel like I am doing my part.

Wow, like I mentioned just because I download doesn't mean I dont buy I drop money at cons just like everybody else hundreds at at time. But if I had never downloaded the anime I would have never got into and never bough it. I would have to say people who download contribute equally or even more money than anime fans who dont.


Reibooi
-True you need internet to download everyone knows that. What im saying is you dont need it to watch the downloads. I can put downloads on my netbook take them somewhere that doesn't have wifi and watch them. Can you do that with anime streams?

The whole "If they like it they will buy it" Thing is BS. I can't tell you the amount of people I know who have seen shows like Samurai 7, Death Note, Bleach and Naruto fan subbed and could not stop raving about it and yet NEVER bought a single disc despite the insanely low prices you can get them for over at places like Right Stuf. If people can get stuff for free they don't care more often then not about buying and supporting those behind it.

-Let me quote you "insanely low prices", exactly people that only like naruto and adult swim animes have no reason to buy anime dvd's they're not really the ones who download anyways. it is the hardcore otaku who usually downloand and as you call it "pirate" anime. Alright say I download an anime and love it. What about the next time I go to a con, how about the figures, manga, shirts, and other related merch im going to purchase. Once again all because I downloaded an anime.

@Shugo
But, was that anime licensed? That is where the problem lies. Just because you buy a figure doesn't mean that downloading is the reason, you could have very well bought the same figure if you had bought the licensed DVD if said show was licensed.

Also, I know your kind, you will probably use the "I'm a student who is barely getting by so I can't buy anime." Trust me, even with being a student, it won't stop a true fan from BUYING anime. I myself know this first hand because I am a student without a lot of money. I mostly wait for sales on RightStuf and only buy the series that interest me the most right at their release. By doing that, I have saved a lot of money.

So stop complaining, don't try and justify stealing licensed material, just go out and BUY the damn show.

Sorry for the double post.

@Shugo: WTF? Did you just say those who download spend more? Next time you decide to say something like that, make sure you actually know what a real fan is like.

When did buying original DVDs become cheaper than downoading animes? Im my country anmes are not as available as in the US or Japan. There are just some releases extremely expensive (for example: Shakugan no Shana DvD collection is $80. How do you thing i can buy something this expensive when avarege salary is only $400 a month and specialy in these times of crisis). And buying from internet is a pain cuz you can never know if you'll ever reseve your order. Plus it's also expensive. Japanese Modern Visual Culture isn't developing in this country.
95% of population never heard the terms Anime and/or (especaily) Manga;
5% are aware of existence of anime and or manga;
3% are actualy watching them and/or reading manga;
and less than 1% could be considered as true anime fans.

@shinigami50: 75% of statistics are made up. I sincerely doubt a poll has been taken about something which is unknown to most of the country and, quite honestly, pretty unimportant in the whole of a country's national interests. But that's beside your point, I'm sure.
I can see where you're coming from, though. It's tough at times, especially so in countries where J-culture hasn't made a niche for itself among the consumer base, or where licensing is simply complicated. However, there are reliable, cheap sources you can buy from.

On the same line of thought, may I suggest that Japanator start a semi-regular "column" advertising good sources for otaku goods and services? I have a feeling a lot of people would appreciate it, especially those who want to "wage this war" but don't have so much cash, including me, yet another poor college student.

Oh, forgot to say in the last post, there are also many sources you can stream from for free, which run on advertisements. Brilliant system, one that's still working on getting started, but it clearly works for everyone. Except those freaks that like having the DVD cases around (which I am one of).

There's so many things I want to discuss about this that I'm having an aneurysm from thinking too much.

The abridged version is this: A vicious circle does exist, fans need to be less thrifty and actively use legit sites, distributors need to embrace change and work on quality.

kamanashi
-A student with a of of money what school do you go to lol? I do buy anme from rightstuf to when I have the money or some stuff I buy at Best Buy. I do purchase anime boxsets. after I download it, watch it, and like it.


Downloading beats streaming. No ads FTW.

@Shugo: "Downloading beats streaming. No ads FTW."
So, no income for companies when you watch their anime FTW. Amirite?

@gwjunkie: Or, to put it another way, "I WANT FREE SHIT! WHERE IS MY FREE SHIT?"

gwjunkie
-those 30sec adds on streams bring in loads of money I think not. Its the material things that bring in money. Besides streams=low quality

-those 30sec adds on streams bring in loads of money I think not. Its the material things that bring in money. Besides streams=low quality

Hmm, the truth is at last revealed.

Yes, those 30-second ads DO bring in lots of money. That's why you see them in front of every news report, TV show, video game trailer and Hulu clip that you can watch online.

@Shugo
When was the last time you used Crunchyroll? $5 a month and you get quality that beats most, if not all fansubs and you have no ads. Plus, I like how you once again try to justify your failure to support a company by saying you buy it after even though it's quite obvious you don't.

@Shugo

It's become incredibly obvious that you lack any type of common logic. It seems there is no reason trying to tell you that what you do for the most part is wrong. You attitude is what so many people have and is slowly KILLING the anime industry.

If you believe it or not watching streams on legal sites DOES make the companies money. If you have ever run a website with something like Google Ad sense maybe you would understand a little better WHY it makes them money but I guess you can't handle that.

You wanna download anime illegally and kill the industry? Fine go ahead. But DO NOT try to justify it with this retarded twisted kind of logic that don't make sense. Sit quietly in your corner and kill the industry that you supposedly love.

@Reibooi
Now that's what I'm talking about.

I am a brand new member here, but have been a fan of anime for a long time. I am 26, I have a pretty decent job, etc, etc, etc. So maybe my "jumping back into anime" will help some people understand.

I have many collections at home, thanks to RightStuf's sales, and I will continue to buy anime that I enjoy, but here's the issue: I don't want to wait if I am going to watch an anime, and I want to be able to watch an anime before I buy it (most of what I have purchased on RightStuf to date has just been recommended, or I've seen a review).

More recently there are websites that offer streaming in a timely manner, and that offer some older shows, but what do I do for the shows that I have missed over the past 3 or 4 years?? I download them. I watch them, and may not even get through a whole season (life gets in the way), but if I enjoyed what I watched, I buy them. I know that I may be the exception to the rule, and I have no issue streaming a program with ads if necessary (I'm going through "Darker Than Black" right now on Hulu), and it is ALWAYS my first option, but there are so many titles in the Top 50 of the Decade list for example - that aren't available for streaming anymore.

I look at what I do the same way I look at borrowing a movie from a friend, if I enjoy the movie, I am much more likely to buy it down the road - even if it's just "when the price is right." If I hate the movie though, I'm not going to go purchase the title.

With me the problem lies in:

a) people who never buy anything after watching a series
b) not many ways to "watch before you buy"
c) some media network needs to work with the japanese studios to come to an agreement where GOOD subs are added to programs within a week of the original air date in Japan so that anime fans in the US feel like they aren't always out of the loop.

I know the US isn't the primary market for anime series right now, but I know that there is a market here if people actually had a reason to watch every week. If I had the money or resources I would pitch it, but I just don't.

I may be behind enough in the scene that I am missing developments of the past couple of years, but to my understanding/knowledge, we still don't have a great method to watch programs shortly after release, subbed and aired within a short window. So instead I have to go to fansubs for newer shows, or a download with a full season of an older show so I can blow through a season in a week.

I don't approve of piracy, or myself I guess when I pirate, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Look at iTunes, once people had a viable, reliable, relatively cheap method to purchase just the songs they wanted, many people moved away from the p2p systems.

We need a full anime library, IN ONE PLACE, with a reduced cost to view an entire series online, with QUALITY subs and/or dubs, and we need to have a quick turnaround for new series from air date to online date. Give items a limited "free" window and charge after that window. I don't know, there such better ways to handle this problem than bitching about it and saying that people who download episodes online aren't REAL fans. That's total crap. I am a real fan, but as I mentioned before, I want to know what I am buying before I go and spend $30-100 on it. Especially right now when it's a little bit harder for me to go drop that kind of money on ANYTHING.

Flame me if I am wrong, but I think if we are going to try to move people away from pirating the material, there MUST be a viable alternative...and right now, there just isn't.

Man, 75 comments, I'm way late here.

This is the first article I've seen that tells me I'm not a pirate! Yay! I DO watch unlicensed/unannounced shows on fansub. When they are licensed here, I'd go through netflix or whatever if I'm interested. Problem is, if I didn't check them out on fansub when they aired in Japan, most likely I'm not interested by the time it hits streaming.

Some places are fixing this by live streaming, such as Funi and Crunchy Roll. But I cant always deal with CR. I dont want to pay, because I'm saving to buy DVDs. The free versions are horrid! So my only views there are shows the fansubber dont like enough to keep fansubbing around it. (Thanks for Nogizaka Haruka Purezza, CR!)

But when there is a 720 fansub out for Sora no Woto, and my other option is a super low quality CR stream a week late, what do I do? It vexes me!!!

Anyway, lets say I downloaded, oh i don't know, Heroic Age, back when it aired. Long before it got licensed. If these files are still on my hard drive, can I watch these before I buy? Or should I delete and watch the streams instead? Or can I watch them assuming I plan on deleting later, regardless of intention to buy? I didnt download them when the show was licensed... theyve just been in... hibernation?

Is there an equivalent to video game demos in the anime industry? Because that would be pretty useful.

@Jon: Two counts of thanks for interpreting my post and explaining what I would have on Shugo's reply.

@Reibooi: Amen.

@MicroCuts7: That would take an insane amount of work to get together, would take an insane amount of licensing, re-licensing, co-licensing(?), but admittedly would be insanely convenient. Currently virtually impossible, however, and I'm not sure how it would work without a monopoly on anime licensing, which would of course be bad. As mentioned by someone else, I believe to some extent that the problem is both consumer-side and production-side. Viewers need to stop being all "I WANT MY FREE SHIT" and companies need to stop responding with "OKAY THEN CHEAPOS YOU GET THE SHITTY SHIT, SAME PRICE".
It's a complicated issue of course and I'm sure there's more that plays into it than that, but it's definitely a problem that could mostly be worked out with generally more communication between companies and consumers, and with a better economy, and some time.

@AQua ng: I believe they're called trailers. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, though.

@gwjunkie: Yes, it would take a lot of work and there would be a lot of hassle with licensing, but if Apple can do it with an industry as convoluted as the music industry. I think that it is possible with the anime industry as well. We just need someone with the pocketbook and the balls to do it... I do agree though, it's both sides. I just want good stuff with good subs, and I don't want to have to wait for 18 months to see it. Once again, I am somewhat of an exception because if I enjoy something, I buy it, so in my scenario, my ability to download a series actually DOES mean an increased revenue stream for the studios - and I always check Hulu, Netflix, etc. first, but many times, a lot of the stuff I want just isn't there.

This probably all stems from a blind buy of Desert Punk...I can't even get through a full disc in one sitting, and I purchased a collection of the 6 discs together. Not the WORST thing that I've seen, but I surely wouldn't be suggesting it to people as a "must watch." If I had seen it first, I would've known after 3 episodes that it just wasn't for me...

@MicroCuts7

With all due respect all Apple does is get the companies music together in 1 place and earn a cut that's it.

With anime subbing needs to be done on each and every and or dubbing on each and every show and that's something that's nearly impossible even for a company with apple sized money. Music and anime are just two different beasts. I can see what you are talking about and it's a great idea but I just don't' see something like that ever happening. It's far to much for any one company and would probably be too much for all the anime companies in the US combined even if they were doing really well.

Think about the resources it would take to sub/dub like 20 episodes of shows each week non stop. My head is just spinning at the thought of it XD

The problem is, the actual business form isn't good for the companies nor to the customers, and that is clear.

My suggestion would be something like iTunes, with subbed animes coming with the same speed of fansubs. Is it impossible? May be.

As the anime business simply doesn't exist in my country and importing DVDs is expensive (think we pay the double of what you americans pay for your stuff, not only animes, but EVERYTHING because of god damned high taxes), for now, I'll continue to give money to who deserves it by the way I aways did: importing collectibles as posters, t-shirts, toys and everything else.

@Reibooi: It wouldn't be THAT hard...to go onto the internetz and hire the best fansubbers. You would not only be taking that person away from their current contribution to the pirating, but you would likely find that people who enjoy thier work would follow them.

And so what if Apple is getting a cut? I am perfectly okay with it, and I would fully expect whatever company did all of the work to "sub-in-a-hurry" everything to receive a cut as well. The point with the Apple reference was that they took something that would have been looked at as impossible years ago and did it in a way that is clean, easy to use - and it just works.

It might be way different for "dub-in-a-hurry" - but if individuals can "fansub-in-a-hurry" on their own time, then paying those same people a decent amount of money to "sub-in-a-hurry" legitimately wouldn't be that impossible.

I am sorry if I sound like I am crazy, but I think it's a good way to actually move people away from pirating...I know it would work for me, and I feel like I'm not the only one who does the stuff that I had mentioned in my previous posts...

OH! and @Reibooi: I'm still a newb, I am currently due no respect! lol

@MicroCuts7

Getting fansubbers into the mix is actually a good idea. Make the problem part of the solution. The only real problem is I can see big companies not wanting to out source to people they don't consider professionals. However I think it would work in a certain sense. The fansubbers that really loved what they were doing would jump at the chance to be paid and help the industry instead of killing it.

As for apple getting a cut I wasn't saying that was a bad thing or anything XD. I'm just saying that's why they get a cut is because it was them who put the whole setup for Itunes together. But with Music there isn't really much work for apple they just put the stuff on a server and get the check. My point is that there would be ALOT more work involved for something like anime.

"But with Music there isn't really much work for apple they just put the stuff on a server and get the check. My point is that there would be ALOT more work involved for something like anime."

This is true, but if you have a deal with production companies to upload the files to a server (as I expect Apple does with movie and music companies) where it would sit in a queue to be subbed, and another deal to sub the content, then I think it could work out...

Maybe I just need to find the funding?

@MicroCuts7: (replying to your first reply to me) There's a lot of anime out there, some of which isn't currently licensed and would need to be re-licensed by an American company, and then that would have to be licensed through the licenser with whatever company is combining all of these companies together. And if that's not allowed under the current licenses (which it probably isn't, why would it be?) then they have to negotiate the licensing terms, and increasing the spread of the rights would likely cost even more money.
It's a lot harder than the difficulty iTunes has with, to compare a similar case, the Japanese music industry. It was only two or three years ago that they made Ayumi Hamasaki available in the American iTunes store, and they don't have the Pillows at all, nor do they have any significant amount of popular Japanese music; even the top artists in the Japanese music store are not available in the U.S. store. To say that they've done the same thing you're suggesting would be to say that they have licensed music from every (or almost every) major Japanese artist and made it easily accessible, which isn't exactly the case. While it may be true that the music industry is convoluted, so is a lot of media industry in general.

I can see your point when talking about shows you can't find at all, with thorough searching over the internet, even though it's licensed; I think that's admissible. If they don't make it available even though they have the license, it may as well not exist to people looking through legal means, and that's just not fair, I agree. I often do the same for such things.

The thing about "blind buying" is, even if it's not available to you legally, you could still find reviews of the series, even on this very site, and make your judgment from there.

The hiring of fansubbers would be tricky...because firstly you would be basically proclaiming that you condone what the subbers had done previously, even though you took them away from it, and you would be paying them for it. Newspapers could take to that pretty quickly unless it was done quietly. (I'm not sure, but it could work out like that.) And secondly, like Reibooi said, it's potentially a good idea, but the two sides have a sort of vendetta against each other, in a way. There's a reason they work separately in the first place.

As far as funding, I can say it would be expensive, but I wouldn't know how expensive exactly. There's a lot of anime series out there to license and re- or co-license or something, and then server upkeep...

Let me correct above: In the blind buying section I meant "Even if it's not available for you to pre-view legally".

Hi everyone! The industry does not have a legal obligation to do every little thing you want before you buy (timely releases, bluray, lower prices or whatever), but YOU have a legal obligation not to steal things that aren't yours. I hope all of you are made to pay for your larceny.

I like this, for a while it was unclear to me about whether or not certain things were legal or not but for a while now I've been buying my anime on dvds legally. Rather than watching them online its better to own a series and revisit it when you want.

What would you think about downloading raws?

I would gladly watch the shows live, but I need a C band dish in the US and that monster is like 10-12 feet wide to get the Japanese channels.

Anyone care to convince my neighbors of this idea? hah...they already bitched about my 1 meter dish.

Lets develop the idea of getting funsubbers involved further.

What if there would be no need in licensing at all?

1. Funsubbers do quality work fast and do not bother with licensing,
2. streaming sites and DVD publishes provide revenue flow into the industry, but they need to get the license - which slows everything down,
3. the fandom public wish to pay for good shows in order to support industry, but only if quality service is provided

So, what if there would be a website where general public could download/stream the funsubbed [never licensed] shows of their choice for some nonzero fee. Those fees could be donated entirely and directly to studios, while funsubbers would get a good place to compete each other.

Well, sounds like utopia :-)

@gwjunkie You are right, iTunes is primarily a store that works only with US distributors - I see your point. I should have put a *wink* or /sarcasm next to the funding...I know it would be crazy expensive to start something like that. As far as fansubbers go - I think a lot of the vendetta is that many studio dubs suck. I remember watching a fansub of Samurai Champloo a while back that not only had the subs, but that had explanations for certain terms and references as well. While I don't know that the studio release DOESN'T have this (because I own the series but haven't watched it), it made it more accessible for me at the time. I can see how that would also be really annoying for some, and after the first viewing wouldn't be necessary, but that kinda of treatment/care needs to be put into studio releases if anime is going to sell well anywhere other than Japan. Another perfect example of a series that I was upset about picking up, but for a different reason is Blood+ - just because it's dubtitles instead of proper subtitles. A subtitle file is generall only 3 or 4 MB's on a disc, so there's plenty of room to have several versions of the subs. Oh well, I feel like my point is across, and now I'll just start beating a dead horse - which I would rather not do - but it looks like no one is necessarily totally against my methodology/reasoning for downloading before buying in very limited circumstances, which is nice. I do totally agree that it's wrong, and if I can avoid it I do, but I always try to support the industry as well. I just actually felt compelled to write something for this particular article because I think there are some serious issues telling people who download anime that they arent "real fans," and I feel that if people actually tried to solve the problem instead of calling fans out, that there could be a viable method for both sides to get their way.

I kinda find myself somewhere in the middle when it comes to the whole fansub/legit copy argument. I enjoy creating AMVs and having high quality video as well as supporting the companies that make it possible so I love having the DVDs. I try to make every effort to purchase what it is that I want to watch. Back in the early 2000s I used to save up for a long time to get the one boxed set of something I really wanted to see at the local brick and mortar store. I remeber waiting 4 years after it's inital English release before I could afford Saiyuki. But never once in that duration did I see a fansub of it. In fact, I never watched any fansubs until around 2007 when I started watching a couple of things on Crunchyroll before they went legit.

Recently though, I find it is increasingly hard to stick soley to legit releases. I am, for better or worse, in a country outside the US, so most of the legit streaming sites are blocked. Were they accessible, I would otherwise absolutely watch legit streams of shows. As well, DVD prices are *vastly* inflated over the US MSRP, when our dollar is very close to parity with the US dollar in reality. In some instances it would actually be cheaper for me to buy DVDs from a US store, pay the $20 in shipping and the $20 customs charge to get it to my front door. While these kind of prices were fine when my country's dollar was far, far lower in value in relation to the US$, to see the same discrepency in price now that our currancies are almost equal is not as easy to swallow. I simply cannot afford to purchase from brick and mortar stores anymore.

What I have been doing is perordering everything on the branch of Amazon for my country. Their preorder prices generally relieve a good deal of the currency inflation. (I have preordered and now own every one of Funimation's One Piece releases thus far, as an example.) And I also refuse to watch a series that is already lisenced by the time I discover it. I've also bought several series based *soley* on reviews that I've read and absolutely loved them (Ergo Proxy and Le Chevalier d'Eon for example,) because I believe in the need to support the industry and voting with my dollar.

Now, I will say that I have watched some fansubs. My policy when it comes to them is that if it becomes liscenced I will buy it. I am normally quite happy to do this. I let out a cry of happiness the moment I heard Funimation had rescued One Piece from 4kids. If I think the show stands any chance of getting licenced after I have watched it once through I will not download the fansubs. As it is, over the last four years that I have been watching fansubs I only have five series downloaded total. And I would be more than happy to buy these shows if they were picked up. That said, if a show is licenced with it's last two or three episodes left to air, and I *know* that I will be buying it, I will watch the fansubs to finish out the show. Considering that, during the time since I have started watching fansubs there is only one show that I have watched and not bought (which was because it was one of the very last single disc releases, and while I can handle inflated box set and half-set prices, single discs are simply a no-go in this day and age.) I think this policy is a good compromise. By comparison, over the same period I've bought the boxset or season sets of roughly 50 series. And some of these, like One Piece, Bleach and FMA (which I got in the 4 half-season sets) have quite a number of releases.

I just try to be reasonable. If I hear about something that I think I might like I look for a review, maybe a couple fansites about it. If I'm still interested and it's licenced I'll buy it. If it's not, I'll still look for a review before going the fansub route, and if I do end up watching a show through fansub and it gets picked up I will certainly buy it. I think it just comes down to common sense, responsibility and patience. I know anime is expensive *especially* where I live, but I love it enough to tell companies just how much I love it by spending my hard-earned cash on it.

@tg8: Taking somebody else's work and selling it without licensing? Please tell me you're joking; nobody would accept that. Most users would find a place to download for free anyway. You see all these alternatives but so many people just keep downloading.

For the few channels that are showing anime (cartoon network, disney xd, sifi, and what others there are) they aren't as up to date as with the online stuff. Which is why we pirate stuff.

But I have a solution. Why don't they just put the sub/translator's for the online streaming on payroll and have the translations out that much faster? And make it so they don't have to deal with the legal stuff, just pay them for the subbings/translations, and use it in the actual dubbing. With subs that are translated in less then a day of the anime/manga coming out then why would people look and watch dubbed versions when they'll already know what happens? I lost interest the one time I looked at a spoiler for a chapter that was coming out the next day because I already knew what happened.

@Ronin H. Mentalix: *facepalm* I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. You can't just decide not to deal with the "legal stuff", because that's precisely what we call "pirating". You can't just pay people for subbing something that isn't going to make any profit. I mean where do you expect the payroll money to be coming from? If you release the subs for a price without licensing then you're making money off someone else's property without a license, which is what we call "pirating".

@gwjunkie: I'm almost joking.

I admit that this scheme is not legally "pure" at all. But for studios this could be a little better, than just when their work is taken without a licensing and given away for free.

Most users would still find a place to download for free - this could not be stopped. This is in a human nature. But some of the users would start paying, being convinced that those money go directly to authors. Website must make this clear. Best funsubbers might also tend to publish their work only there, being sure that they make people support the industry.

Anyway, I don't believe that this is possible.

I buy as much anime as I can. A lot of the locally released stuff is overpriced so I order from rightstuf. I keep copies of my fansubs even after buying the DVDs because ugly yellow subs = FAIL

I just make it simple:

-Download any new show that seems interesting
-If it gets licensed and I am enjoying it, I keep watching and buy it when it comes out on DVD/Blu-ray in the US.
-If it isn't licensed then who cares.

When it comes to older shows, I watch a few eps and if I like it and it's licensed then I buy it and watch the rest on DVD. I know this doesn't gel for some because of morals or whatever but who cares... I know I don't.

It's very destructive, pirating. Some people are complaining about the prices of the legal anime, but those prices have to be higher to keep the companies afloat. No one wants to buy = higher prices = no one wants to buy. A good example is Moribito. I got the 10-ep DVD set, but then had to download the rest because it wasn't out yet in English. And when they slooowly started releasing more, it was only a couple episodes per disc, and way overpriced. And still only half the series is on the shelves.

Demand is high, but supply is low because we've killed most of the anime companies off by not buying stuff.

The "anime is too expensive" whining is just hilarious, keeping in mind that 10 years prior the standard was subbed VHS tapes with 2-3 episodes for $30. Now you can commonly find 13-26 episode sets for similar prices.

Back in them days we paid $390 for Evangelion and we relished the opportunity! Damn kids today just don't know how good they have it, I tell ya whut.

I'm on the fence about the pros and cons of the piracy issue on anime.
Without fansubs I wouldn't have been able to watch many great new shows that's been airing like Slayers R/Evolution, Kuroshitsuji and Bakemonogatari
At the same time they don't directly earn the studios any revenue.

I'll offer everyone a wall of text below about my anime history.

My first steps back to anime since childhood (when I didn't know it was 'anime') was about 6 years ago when a friend recommended Outlaw Star.
Being a 15 year old computer whiz living in Sweden, I turned to the net and patiently spent the next three months downloading a dvd rip torrent at 10-30 kb/s. And oh was it worth the wait.
Though it wasn't until the same friend commented about Bleach being awesome on the day the 10th episode of it was subbed, that I was really drawn in to anime.
I've been downloading since that day and to date have completed 119 separate titles.

At this point everyone would probably call me a pirate and say that I'm helping destroy the industry.
However, it wasn't until the end of 2007 when I took a loan for my two year collage level education that I had my first chance of getting physical with anime.
Finally getting some money to spend each month I made my first purchase.
It was the title which I mentioned as my very first anime, Outlaw Star.
At that point I made a vow to myself that, when I had acquired a job and a stable income, I would start the great task of buying every single title that I have watched.

The process of doing so started about 7 months ago. I went through all the anime I have downloaded and created a spreadsheet, added in everything which is available on European online stores and noting down price and a direct link to the product page.
Each month I've removed $100 - $200 worth of anime from the spreadsheet. In fact, just today I spent $200 ordering Wolf's Rain, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Trigun, Tenchi Muyo OVA and Hellsing.
Though even with that I still have about $2800 more to buy from just what's available in Europe.

At one point I'm going to properly authenticate my RightStuff account so I can order from there with my CC, with my first purchase being a complete collection of Urusei Yatsura.


To summarize, fansubs are helping me discover more anime which will then be added to my list of to buy when they're released licensed with sub.
I can only wish though that sites like Hulu becomes available outside the US.

@Bacon5200: VHS was close to $50 a tape in my country for 2-3 episodes. I remember being really happy over getting a dub-only first boxed set of Revolutionary Girl Utena for $90 and then when I finally got a DVD player I saved up all my birthday and Christmas money for two years to get the Gundam Wing boxed set for $350. So I totally agree with you on how good prices are now compared to then. $40 for a half-season set and $60 for a full season? Awesome.

But I still whine about prices. Why? Because when the US MSRP is $60 for a boxed set, the price I see on the exact same set is $95 in my country when the exchange rates for our respective dollars are very close to equal. I think I (and people from countries that aren't the US,) have bit of leeway to whine when it comes to that.

When you watch anime on Crunchyroll or hulu or funimation, you are **NOT supporting Japanese companies**. They do not see a dime of that money. That money goes directly to the American licensees. There is no profit sharing involved. US companies pay/buy/lease the right to carry IP's. Once the license is paid for, the Japanese companies no longer see any revenue from DVD or Bluray purchases from American companies.

If you want to support the anime industry, buy your anime directly from Japan. Then the companies who actually make the IP's will then see your hard earned money.

Sorry Jon Snyder, you are way off the mark here.

Heres a simple fact , discs dont last long. If i purchase something i want it to last a long time and no quality lost. My hardrive does this a disc does not.

Fact is this along side the fact that highspeed internet is all over the place now is the downfall here. People will most of the time take something for free if they can. Especialy if they feel its not likely to get them into trouble. Thats a fact of life not everyone cares about the bigger picture.


What the companies need to do is deal with this rather than try to fight it. They should start offering two things MORE HIGH QUALITY streams of their media in a more timely manner,AND pay to download services. Toss in ads to pay for the shows online and stream them in 720hd.

Japanese anime industry needs to make english subs in house more and upload these to websites with ads. FORGET THE MIDDLE MAN!! This will give a huge increase in profits as they wont need to punch out hundreds of hd and blu-ray discs. Just a couple of server maintence costs.

Seriously get with the program and the times people tv is on the way out as is disc media get the fuck over it.

Japanese anime industry needs to make english subs in house more
Have you ever read subs written by a non-native English speaker? They would turn out horrible... worse than the shittiest fansub group you can think of.

Heh, just spent $150 on new anime. #notapirate :P

Of course, Spice and wolf (the one I wanted the most) is backordered :(

I picked up the Bleach 1-2 seasons on the cheap from Amazon, and I plan on getting the Rescue Arc set when I get the chance. However, I do have to credit my purchase of these to me watching them through torrents. Understandably this makes me somewhat of a pirate, but by the time Adult Swim had gotten into the first season, I was already well into the Bount arc (shudder) with Fansubs.

As it is one of my favorite shows, I felt it necessary to proceed on with getting them legit. But there was no way in Hell I was spending anything more than $50. It's this sole reason that I was grateful for torrents, and (now even more so) the publishing companies to allow streaming on legit websites. Some folks don't have that kind of cash to put down for full seasons, which I think is why they turn to fansubs and the like. But with Hulu and CrunchyRoll providing more licensed Anime, admittedly fansubs as an excuse has kinda gone down the drain.

I found the legal route to be more than enough to fill my winter break. Watched FMA: Brotherhood and Inuyasha Kanketsu-hen on Hulu, and bought the Baccano set.

I don't strictly object to downloading and the like, but what does aggravate me is when people use bullshit excuses to justify piracy. More companies need to offer anime simulcasts and take a proactive approach if they want to decrease the need for fansubs - yes. ZOMG the man steals too much money for anime so I have the right to pirate!!! - no.

Jon Snyder i am aware of that but fact is there are dozens of native english speakers liveing in japan for them to hire for that sort of thing. If They did that instead of licensing they could expand their market. They only see what is made and sent to them to cover the Ip licensing after that NIL.

@relic2279: Wow, your grasp of economics is pitiful.

You said it yourself, those services pay to license the shows. If carrying those shows makes them no money, they will cut back on buying further show licenses. If they do well, they will carry more. The Japanese licensors may not profit on a per-view basis, but they most certainly stand to benefit when legal overseas distribution does well, and stand to be hurt if it does not.

@Bacon5200

Japanese companies do not rely nor expect profit from overseas licensees. The money they make of licensing their shows abroad is almost nil. It's peanuts, except for a couple big name brands like Dragonball Z or Pokemon.

I want Japanese companies to make money. Not American companies. The Japanese anime market is dying and they've started outsourcing animators from China and Korea. They need the money. And bad. Or we will see a decline in quality of shows from Japan. So sir, you are the one who knows nothing of economics, actually more specifically, the current shape of the anime business in Japan.

Japanators heart is in the right place, but either they're focused on the wrong target, or they are completely aware of how it works, and are just trying to appease their advertisers, sponsers, guerrilla marketers for some cash with all this anti-piracy crap they've been spewing.

It's almost nil because of basic supply and demand. The amount of anime that will be licensed and what licensees are willing to pay is directly proportional to the amount of patronage they can muster. If these sites were 1/10th as popular as Pirate Bay, you'd see far more competition between them to secure new series. Companies would move to outbid one another for content, which means the average licensing price would rise and/or Japanese companies could make additional revenue demands. And US lisencees could get back into actively co-producing or co-financing anime with J-studios, which was a very real and appreciably large phenomenon when the US anime industry was healthy, not that you seem to have any knowledge of this.

It's a far sight more of an achievable and realistic goal for the industry to be bettered by a stronger domestic licensing culture than your counter-proposal for US patrons to magically go from a system where they pay prices in line with the rest of the US video market, if they pay at all, to paying upwards of 500% more for Japanese imports that don't even cater to the goddamn language they speak.

relic2279
-then they need to pay the animators more. I saw some kind of show where they were talking about how anime is dying, downloading was never mentioned but the fact that they pay the animators low amounts was.

@relic2279
The Japanese anime market is dying and they've started outsourcing animators from China and Korea.
Started? They've been doing that since the 80s!

Ever seen the second season of Big O? The ONLY reason it was ever animated is because Cartoon Network (Surprise! An American company!) helped co-produce it. When American anime companies get lots revenue, they start co-financing and co-producing anime with Japanese studios. The result is *gasp* MORE ANIME! Don't give me this "the American market doesn't provide revenue" crap because it just isn't true.

@relic2279
An example of what I was just talking about... FUNimation (basically the only American anime company that's turning a profit right now) has announced that they plan to start co-producing anime. In other words, the American market is pumping money directly into the Japanese anime industry. Piracy reduces that revenue flow.

That's gonna be a tall order, seeing as that I haet Crunchyroll and all. But, it's worth a shot.

@relic2279:
Yes buying anime directly from Japan works so very well for people not fluent in Japanese.

As for all CR's money going to American companies, I'm not so sure. Most of the stuff they simulcast has been picked up by American distributors and I know that at least for Saki (which you appear to be familiar with) it was TV Tokyo calling the shots for uploading episodes.

At any rate, if you think the Japanese companies aren't watching the revenue of American distributors you're wrong. If the American distributors suddenly strike it rich with anime they'll up their licensing fees to get a larger chunk of the pie.

Well, Crunchyroll started out as a place that streamed fansubs so they aren't any better than pirates. The American companies can't rely on the same fanbase forever, especially when it's shrinking due to reduced wages. It's their job as a company to reach to new audiences rather than turning to the core fanbase and call us all pirates. I don't know how many of you like sankaku for reliable news, but they did an article on the meager wages of animators in Japan http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/23/japanese-animators-get-slave-wages-11000-a-year/ so I'd rather pirate and buy imports than support the American industry that can't survive without blaming all of us for it's current issues.

I'll keep it short: I, along with the other old schoolers, helped keep anime afloat back in the day when tapes were $30 for a 15-20 minute subbed OAV. I've made tons of blind purchases on terrible shit with terrible subs/dubs that I had no way of watching beforehand. So the last thing I need is a bunch of rookie moralfags telling me that I'm going to moral hell for 'illegally procuring' a show beforehand. As the adage goes, "If I like it, I'll buy it", and I have many, many times.

If a fansubber (who works PRO-BONO, aka for the love of the game)can do a better job on quality, visuals, and translations on anime than any of these companies, or certain streaming sites with shitty tanslation jobs; you can obviously tell who I'm going to pick.
What kind of idiot will pay and reward a company with shoddy work, when a better, higher quality version is out there for free? Shitty companies that do shitty jobs deserve to go under, and ones that make works that blow you out of the water... Well, go throw your wallets at them.

tl;dr I've spent tons on anime, don't tell me how to do shit.

I mostly stay away from shows that are nailed down with licensing, but whatever isn't......aaaaargh

@SourGr8pes
I hate how people still try to make excuses for why they pirate.

@SourGr8pes: Oh yes, the fansubbers love anime so much, distributing it for free and sucking the profit out of the companies. They don't deserve to make a no-cost profit on work they haven't paid for the rights to, so of course they're doing it for some kind of love; but it isn't love of the industry, or if it is then it's a pretty damn weird kind of love. Do fansubbers do the animating? Do the fansubbers do the voice acting? Does that all pay for itself? Clearly it must, if the fansubbers don't have any obligation to pay for it.

@gwjunkie: What the hell are you talking about? "distributing it for free and sucking the profit out of the companies." You're talking like everything I could go download right now as a fansub is available in English. It isn't. A lot of it never will be. And it is also not as though fansubs represent lost profit. You're just simplistically assuming that's the case. Want to bet that if you cross-referenced anime-industry profits since it began, with fansub activity, there'd be a negative correlation? I guess you think there would be, but I don't think I'd take that bet....because taping/cd-rewriters/dvd-rewriters sure didn't have that effect on mainstream entertainment, regardless of the bullshit that the RIAA likes to claim.

@kamanashi: That is not an excuse. It's a reason. And here's the thing: whether or not you agree with his reasoning does not make the slightest bit of difference.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right: he's an evil stealy pirate who is directly robbing money out of the wallets of...whoever you think it is who's losing money whenever he downloads something. Or I download it, let's not beat around the bush. Furthermore, your subjective morals are going to be made objective, to strengthen your case. Okay, so....now what? You are morally right, he is morally wrong....and doesn't care. Neither do I, frankly. Enjoy your moral high ground: that warm fuzzy feeling it's giving you is the only thing it's giving you. In the real world, nothing changes. You can pout about piracy all you want, but ultimately, you're telling us to give up money here. It needs to be worth it. Why would I buy the subs of Simoun, for example, when the fansubs are already available and are, since they're probably the best fansubs ever made, substantially better than the ones I'm being asked to pay $30 for? As a business competition...they lose.

Presumably though, your answer is: "Because it supports the anime industry". Well, I don't care about the US anime industry,for a start. The Japanese industry is not very well supported by it either, if you really want to support them, get the fansubs and send them a damn check.

But all this assumes lost profits, doesn't it? The lost profits that nobody in any aspect of the entertainment industry has ever been able to prove exist. It assumes that all those pirates, regardless of their 'excuses' for pirating, if deprived of fansubs would suddenly start paying for all those series instead.

Sure they would. Say, ever notice that nobody complains about the secondhand market? Wonder if that means anything...

So, yeah. We're pirates, and you disapprove. You can whine at us, you can call us thieves, you can say it's illegal (as if illegality in any way comments on ethicality). Whatever. None of which solves the problem of financially refreshing the Japanese anime industry.

(inb4 "it'll die, then what?" Well, personally, I think the current crunch is good. It's time some of the dead wood was pared away. Sink, or swim.)

@Privateer

"Well, personally, I think the current crunch is good. It's time some of the dead wood was pared away. Sink, or swim."

Ditto. I'm a long time collector, I'll take a dub over sub any day, I enjoy collecting the dvds & wish the blurays had better packaging, ALWAYS buy my shows, I signed up at CR the first day they offered the subscriptions, etc etc etc.

I've done everything in my power to support the industry, but lately I have had to pass on more and more shows. I agree that the industry needs this down time to let them know that what they have been doing is NOT growing the market, and is not even satisfying the market they have.